Columbia University community 'shattered' after police raid ( www.bbc.com )

Police and private security throng every entrance but one. Steel barriers line the streets. Students pack up belongings in their cars and leave for home - classes are cancelled, and exam plans are up in the air.

Everywhere there is gloom, and uncertainty about what happens next at Columbia University.

Students told the BBC that the university's decision to call in police to clear a Gaza protest late on Tuesday, leading to a raid on the occupied Hamilton Hall and hundreds of arrests, has left the college community shattered.

The university president, Nemat Shafik, said that it was with great regret that she ordered the police raid against students and others she said had infiltrated the protest. It would "take time to heal", she added in a message in the operation's aftermath.

For students of this prestigious school in Manhattan, New York, how long is unclear.

bradorsomething ,

People with six months of training arresting people getting 4-year degrees.

TheHottub ,
@TheHottub@lemmy.world avatar

Then don't give them your money or time and transfer to another school?

thesporkeffect ,

Try not giving boomer ass platitudes that you have clearly put about 20 seconds of thought into.

Do you tell struggling minorities in southern states to 'just move to a blue state'? I'm sure no one has forgotten this is an option, and I expect that future enrollment to the school is going to be way less, but this is an immediate problem and transferring is a semester-scale solution. Some of the students may be ready to graduate as well.

RizzRustbolt ,

Actually, a national student strike would be incredibly effective. Just like it was after Kent State.

You cannot fund weapons development on donations alone.

thesporkeffect ,

I totally agree! That will probably take some time to get up to speed but I would support that in any way I could

firadin ,

Harvard makes more money from it's investments than from tuition. I can't even imagine what their land holdings are netting them.

nutsack ,

nothing can screw up a kids future quite like college

john89 ,

God I hate the dramatization of articles like this.

MapleEngineer ,
@MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

Other than "wrong thought" what was it that the protesters were doing that required such a heavy handed response?

By contrast, in a country with actual freedom Student protesters at McGill encampment determined to stay after judge rejects injunction

Mossheart ,

Not free for long if we get our own Trump Jr (aka Bitcoin Milhouse, aka Pierre Pollievre) elected. This would likely be ' too woke' for them.

Moneo ,

Anti-trans Pierre Pollievre? The same Pierre Pollievre who opposed a tax change only affecting the richest 0.13% of Canadians each year?

UnrepententProcrastinator ,

Not a big fan oir conservative but pretty sure comparing Pollievre with Trump is laughable at best.
You're thinking of something like the PPC.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Imagine if the Columbia administration decided they could swim in regular water instead of a moneybin like Scrooge McDuck and divested the university from Israel. Maybe all of this could have been avoided.

betz24 ,

Aren't there laws that prevent Universities from doing so?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Are there? I've not heard of such a thing.

betz24 ,

Yes, anti-BDS laws. These were passed years ago (not reactionary to now). There are state and federal rules but in general, a university can't boycott or divest from Israeli (or many other nations) in political protest or it loses funding.

I think this is why we see most universities have their hands tied.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

A private university? I would like to see that law.

betz24 ,

I still believe the university benefits from government funding since NSF, NIST, DoD etc are all agencies funding university research. I don't think it's possible to un-fund yourself completely from the government given that it spurs research everywhere.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

But you can make an effort. Which they are not doing.

betz24 ,

I can understand that people hold their college as some part of their soul and want their universities actions to reflect their political beliefs. But, I don't think universities (as an entity) should be involved politically or have political opinions.

LotrOrc ,

What is it but having a political belief right now? It's the same belief but on the opposite side. So if one is political, then by definition so is the other

Dkarma ,

No shit. These guys aren't great at realizing their own inherent bias

Narauko ,

You seem to be confusing taking no action with taking positive action when compared to a negative action, conflating both to be the same thing under an "if you aren't explicitly with me then you're against me" view point. If the University we're going out of its way to dump more money into new Israeli investments, then that would be the same belief but opposite. Not changing anything is by definition the only neutral action, and any change in any direction would be political. Not saying anything about what is ultimately "right", just that there "is" an apolitical option and that is to do whatever would be done if this whole thing wasn't happening.

firadin ,

Anti-BDS laws exist (you can look them up on Wikipedia). Are they constitutional? Certainly not. Is our legal system going to fight them? Doubt it.

WamGams ,

Columbia's dean was on NPR and said that political investments and divestments are illegal.

What the protestors aren't saying is that by divestment they are asking the school to divest from the S&P 500. If Columbia agrees, they need a non politically motivated reason to do so.

betz24 ,

S&P 500? That's an interesting ask considering teachers pension/tenure funds and administrative 401ks are all probably in there.

WamGams ,

Yeah, in my mind it makes more sense to take the protest to wall street.

In the case of Columbia students, they are already in New York. Catching a bus shouldn't be too hard .

anon_8675309 ,

I was with them (because one SHOULD be able to exercise their constitutional rights) until they started breaking shit.

We have a right to peacefully assemble, not act like idiots.

Now, I still wish this was handled differently. They really should have tried to just go after the idiots and not everyone.

ieatpwns ,

No one listens to peaceful protesters

Zink ,

But won’t somebody think of the property!

/s

anon_8675309 ,

Like it or not that’s the only right you’re entitled to.

ieatpwns ,

Like it or not if people get mad enough they’re gonna stop being peaceful and fight for the change they want

WamGams ,

Yes, they do.

The majority of sustained peaceful protests in US history have led to changes.

31337 ,

These protests are probably more "peaceful" than the protests you have in mind. History books and media leave a lot of stuff out.

Also, one thing I've noticed during BLM, is the protests usually start off very peaceful, then police come in and escalate things. After getting gassed, pepper sprayed, beaten, and shot with rubber bullets, people don't tend to be as peaceful anymore.

SpacetimeMachine ,

During the BLM protests there were stories all over the country of police intentionally riling up crowds and destroying property as an excuse to use violence in protesters.

WamGams ,

I didn't say these protests haven't been overwhelmingly peaceful, nor did I say that previous protests didn't have violent aspects.

I said sustained peaceful protests do in fact lead to change.

Jorgumander ,

Those "peaceful protestors" were smashing windows and camping in tents on the lawn of the Universities. And that's not even the worst part, where they are actively supporting Hamas. Sounds like they're just angry about facing consequences, to me.

psycho_driver ,

Joined 2 days ago. Yep.

thatgirlwasfire ,

Camping sounds pretty peaceful.

Karyoplasma ,

They RUINED the lawn! Years of tending down the drain!

ettyblatant , (edited )
@ettyblatant@lemmy.world avatar

OH LOOK A ONE TWO DAY OLD ACCOUNT

Jorgumander ,

Why does that matter, exactly? New accounts aren't allowed to have an opinion? Or state facts?

FenrirIII ,
@FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

You claim "facts" yet have no evidence. Provide evidence.

jkrtn ,

Could you respond to the people asking for facts instead of responding to these comments, then? Someone was asking in what ways the protesters are pro-Hamas, you could start there.

Jorgumander ,

Israel has left Palestine alone since 2005. They allowed Palestine to use their power and water, because Hamas (who Palestinians overwhelmingly support AND voted in) refused to build those resources in Gaza. Instead they chose to build tunnels for terror. Palestinians cheered when Israeli's were murdered, and the protesters literally changed "from the Mountains to the sea" which leaves no room for the legal state of Israel.

If you're pro Palestine you are pro Hamas. They happily started a fight, and they play victim when they lose, rounding up the simple minded as supporters.

archomrade ,

Lmao, I stopped reading after "Israel has left Palestine alone since 2005"

jkrtn ,

Oh, the position is that because some Palestinians cheered, it is okay genocide all of them and starve their children.

Cryophilia ,

If you’re pro Palestine you are pro Hamas.

There it is. Fuck you to hell.

tearsintherain , (edited )
@tearsintherain@leminal.space avatar

"Israel has left Palestine alone since 2005." ummm, that's quite the fiction/delusion:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/

"If you’re pro Palestine you are pro Hamas." aka, let us proceed with our blood thirst, with the mass slaughter, and indiscriminate killing of women and children. Because Palestinians are less than human and we are the chosen.

5in1k ,

That has a dog whistle norse name.

Jorgumander ,

You've just admitted that you're a racist. Nice.

Woozythebear ,

Found the nazi

Jorgumander ,

Found the person who can't make an independent coherent argument for their case, so they resort to overused name-calling.

5in1k ,

Says the guy with a norse name two day old account. Whatever you Nazi.

Jorgumander ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    FakeGreekGirl ,
    @FakeGreekGirl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    You're not helping your case that you're not a Nazi with that one, you know.

    mishielda1234 ,

    Found the person who can't make an independent coherent argument for their case, so they resort to overused name-calling.

    Woozythebear ,

    I don't debate Nazi's, you can fuck off and that's all you get.

    Jorgumander ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    FakeGreekGirl ,
    @FakeGreekGirl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    You're not defending Jews, you're defending Israel. More specifically, you're defending Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people. And you're using ableist slurs to do it, so nice job.

    Jorgumander ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    Woozythebear ,

    Ok nazi

    ghostdoggtv ,

    The guy who lied about smashing windows is mad about name-calling lol... Name calling is the kindest thing you could ask for, national zionist

    WldFyre ,

    I mean they did literally break windows so they could get into Hamilton Hall

    Woozythebear ,

    So the solution was cops who broke a ton of windows and doors then beat a bunch of college students all with your tax money?

    WldFyre ,

    Is that what I said? If I reiterate my exact words would that be enough for you or are you gonna read into that too?

    Woozythebear ,

    You were implying it and are now acting dumb and innocent.

    WldFyre ,

    The person I replied to said that someone "lied about smashing windows." I replied saying that that part was actually true. You don't argue about police brutality by lying and denying what actually happened, that's how you get people reading to dismiss your points.

    FabledAepitaph ,

    Actively supporting Hamas? Explain.

    TIMMAY ,

    get fucking bent you propagandist piece of shit

    endhits ,

    More broken windows. More. More.

    AbsorbsQuickly ,

    Sick genocide apologia bro

    LotrOrc ,

    Oh no they camped in tents outside! How awful!

    Also no they specifically said they were against genocide and calling for a ceasefire. Hamad didn't come into it til a bunch of genocidal psychotic Zionists started saying it was anti semitism because apparently everything anyone does is anti Semitic now

    archomrade ,

    https://midwest.social/pictrs/image/bf7ed4a6-a221-4780-b8a6-7090a357dfe7.jpeg

    SharkAttak ,
    @SharkAttak@kbin.social avatar

    I'd put a here

    giantfloppycock ,

    and others she say had infiltrated the protest

    What’s this about?

    zbyte64 , (edited )

    It's about the narrative that there are outside agitators rallying the protest, but virtually all of the arrests are of students 🧐

    KreekyBonez ,

    we have always been at war with Eurasia!

    WldFyre ,

    They've arrested people who weren't students, not sure why you're saying they haven't

    Firefly7 ,
    @Firefly7@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    The second wave of arrests was almost entirely students, because Columbia has been on lockdown and it’s been increasingly difficult for non-students to get in in the first place. The “outside agitators were at fault” narrative that Columbia is pushing is at odds with this.

    ArtVandelay ,
    @ArtVandelay@lemmy.world avatar

    It would "take time to heal", she added

    That's some big "I'm sorry you made me do this to you" abuser energy there

    xantoxis ,

    It is with great regret that she [did something nobody was forcing her to do].

    thesporkeffect ,

    I can make some educated guesses on who forced her to do it.

    Edit: upon learning more about her, no, it seems like she's just like that

    Aceticon ,

    Most of what she said are pretty typical non-exuses in British politics and upper class circles, which is were she made her whole career up to this.

    Uranium3006 ,
    @Uranium3006@kbin.social avatar

    Keep fighting! We're starting to win

    sndmn ,

    First they ignore you..

    Then they laugh at you..

    Then they fight you.. (I think we're in this vicinity now)

    Then you win.

    sin_free_for_00_days ,

    The verbiage on these posts have me laughing.

    harmonicPerc ,

    How to radicalize a lot of smart people in a very short period of time

    MakePorkGreatAgain ,

    are those people registered to vote?

    DragonTypeWyvern ,

    Do those people own a registered firearm they can bring next time?

    halcyoncmdr ,
    @halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

    If not, it doesn't take very long to do so. When people feel they have a personal and vested interest in voting, they do so reliably and vocally.

    It's apathy that makes people not bother. That's not the case when someone is willing to put out even minimal effort protesting.

    Ononotagain ,

    If only they had someone worth voting FOR.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I'd say preventing a dictatorship is worth voting for, but YMMV.

    Woozythebear ,

    What's it matter? You think they are going to be lining up to vote for Biden who condemned the protests on campus and called the students (many of whom are jewish) antisemitic...

    Maggoty ,

    Yeah actually.

    endhits ,

    If you see people being radicalized and can't think of anything other than voting, you're part of the problem.

    Karyoplasma ,

    You actually have to register to be eligible to vote in the US? Aren't you automatically getting your voting cards when there is an election and you are over the age of 18?

    CouncilOfFriends ,

    https://slrpnk.net/pictrs/image/4cec7db6-0f63-40ef-9f4b-1fbc6446706a.gif

    harmonicPerc ,

    If someone is politically engaged enough to get arrested at a political protest, it seems like a reasonable assumption that they would be registered to vote

    DeJaVu ,

    Ahhhh, the good old land of the free...

    Ultragigagigantic ,
    @Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world avatar

    Welcome to the United Snakes, Land of the thief and home to the slave

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