āWeā¦ reaffirm our adherence to our demands and the national demands of our people; with a permanent ceasefire, the withdrawal of the occupation army from the entire Gaza Strip, the return of the displaced to their areas and places of residence, intensification of the entry of relief and aid, and the start of reconstruction,ā the Islamist faction said.
Not a single one of those seems unreasonable in the slightest and I canāt see why any of them should be withdrawn.
Because if they were serious about negotiating they would give on some points, the same goes for the Israeli government. Tbh to me it seems like neither Hamas nor the Israeli government has any interest in a ceasefire or pause or whatever you want to call it. This ongoing conflict serves their individual power agendas well.
I donāt know, Iām not a political or diplomatic expert. But they took a bunch of hostages, made demands that they know will never be met by the Israeli government and wonāt move away from them. On the other hand the Israeli government has been shitting on them for years, invaded their territory, makes impossible demands, and wonāt move away from them either. Neither of them is right. But from the outside it doesnāt look like either party is really interested in a ceasefire.
Note my comment is not about which party is morally right. An issue I, by the way, donāt really feel equipped to give a definite answer to either. But suffice to say I donāt sympathise with the murder of civilians neither by the IDF nor by Hamas.
They gave on some points back in November, and Israel broke the ceasefire and killed unarmed Palestinians. They donāt trust Israel to uphold their end once again.
Handing them a surrender please note and calling it a cease fire. Their demands are reasonable. Israel and the USās demands are capitulation.
Here. I break into your house. Steal your shit and hold your wife at gunpoint and then tell you to accept things as they are, your stuff is mine and I continue holding your wife at gunpoint but promise not to pull the trigger. Do you agree to my ceasefire? Course you fucking dont.
But your not the one getting shot at so you can sit in your fucking chair and rip some liberal bullshit about ceasefire. They are using language to fuck with you and you donāt have a moral backing to tell the difference. Just words.
Downvoted not because I defend Hamas (which is indeed awful) but because the premise of your post is a lazy, overused attempt to deflect criticism of Israeli crime. Where is the poster defending Hamas? Hamas isnāt even mentioned. Heās condemning Zionist propaganda and Israeli refusals to stop killing which is completely factual and an ethical stance. Take your strawman elsewhere.
Now Hamas did not exist until 1987, they became an actual group only in 1987 because of all the actions Israel had done from 1948 up until 1987. Which is approximately 39-40 years after what Israel had done to the Palestinian people.
From this we can conclude that Hamas did not start this but Israel did and that Hamas is fighting back.
Israel is currently doing:
Stealing land
Ethnic cleansing
Genocide
Calling Palestinians rats, animals and more cruel things
Wanting to erase the entire Palestinian race
Lying to the world
They think they are āsuperiorā than Palestinian people
They think and say that Palestinian people are, the āinferiorā race
Apartheid
Sent Palestinian people jail/ prison for no reason (even kids)
Beat Palestinian people for no reason or provoke to āget a reasonā
Whoās the actual terrorist here?
I condemn both Israel and Hamas but if Israel had not stolen the land and murdered people from 1948 up until now. They (Hamas) would not even exist today. Hamas has become so violent, hateful and such because the world is just watching and doing nothing while Palestinians are getting murdered and humiliated on a daily basis.
The earliest inhabitants in recorded history were Judaic and spoke Hebrew. Seems youāre of the mind that Israel has no right to exist. Youāre describing a warzone. Maybe tell your buddies in Hamas to stop using cities as human shields, oh wait they want the highest number of civilian casualties (Martyrsā¢) as possible because other than taking hostages, using human shields and hiding underground is their last cowardly leverage. Even Japan surrendered and they were an actual country.
Seems youāre of the mind that Israel has no right to exist.
Israel has a right to exist but not in the way they exist now. They exist through murdering, humiliating, apartheid, stealing land and genocide. If back in the day they politely asked the Palestinian people there to live together in peace. That would be an acceptable reason and right to exist.
So no, I donāt think Israel has a right to exist on the way they made the state. Because that means, Palestinians have no right anymore to their own land that was stolen.
It is and stays Palestinian land and the Palestinians have right to it. An occupier cannot become its owner. Never.
Youāre describing a warzone. Maybe tell your buddies in Hamas to stop using cities as human shields, oh wait they want the highest June of civilian casualties as possible because other than taking hostages, human shields are is their last cowardly leverage. Even Japan surrendered and they were an actual country.
Got any trustable source for your claims of āhuman shieldsā and āhighest civilian casualtiesā?
I always find it ironic how Israel supporters claim a lot but zero evidence to back it up and make things immensely personal. It seems Israel supporters cannot discuss without being emotional.
Not only that, it is Israel who has been murdering more than 30 000 civilians and not Hamas.
Also majority of the Israeli people donāt even want the Likud party anymore and they donāt believe in this āwarā. This isnāt a war, this is a genocide. A military backed by US Vs a normal group that calls themselves Hamas.
Yes they built 500 mi of tunnels in an area only 25 miles wide. They put them under the homes of their families and friends and hold their families and friends to stay there and keep working, keep living, donāt mind the terror tunnels under your house.
Thatās called using entire cities as human shields.
Then they told people the evacuations were a hoax and instead of leaving their building after getting a phone call from the IDF saying itās about to be bombed, people should go stand on the roof instead.
Iām not talking about ācontroversialā, Iām talking about actual trustable sources. Wikipedia isnāt really trustable as almost anyone can edit it.
Anyway; it is clear as day - youāre an Israeli supporter and do not care about Palestinian lives. You (unfortunately) ignore all the atrocities Israel has done from 1948 up to 2024 (ongoing) and only blame Hamas.
So I donāt think thereās any valuable reason to continue discussing with you.
The earliest inhabitants in recorded history were Judaic and spoke Hebrew
And many of their children became Christian after Jesus and many became Muslim after Mohamed (s.a.s). The Palestinian people are ethnically the direct descendants of the Hebrew speaking Jews you are referring to. And before the European Jews, many of whom did not speak Hebrew by the way, invaded the land, Muslims, Christians and Jews were coexisting on the land of their ancestors. The people of Moses never left the land. Just that now their great great great great greatā¦ great cousins are forcing them out of the land, their branch of lineage has left hundreds and thousands of years ago.
The whole ethnic argument of zionism is a lie, that is as absurd as US Americans claiming rights to indigenous lands, because they have some 1/1024th native ethnics.
No stop this is a pro Iranian theocratic dictatorship community! Hamas are nice people that absolutely would never literally stone people to death for saying nice things about democracy or asking for elections.
Hamas dictate that Palestine, an area in which, over 2000 years, have been living more than dozens of ethnicities (i.e. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Ancient Greeks, Ancient Romans, Turkish, Britishā¦), is religiously and exclusively belong to only Arabic Muslim Palestinians:
Palestine is the land of the Arab Palestinian people, from it they originate, to it they adhere and belong
Palestine is a land whose status has been elevated by Islam
Palestine is an Arab Islamic land. It is a blessed sacred land that has a special place in the heart of every Arab and every Muslim.
Israel declaration of independence document, in the other hand, respect the multiethnicity of this area, and dictate that:
it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
Agreed. Israel is going to the meetings but their proposals amount to āgive us back the Israeli hostages, weāll give you a few hundred of the thousands of Palestinians weāre imprisoning, and then weāll go back to killing you mmkay?ā Even their ceasefire proposals are a) temporary and b) donāt stop the terrible conditions of apartheid/hostile occupation the Palestinians were living in for decades before Oct. 7th.
Feels like israel slightly forgot why it always ended that way. Only lost them all international support and the rightful designation as the new Nazis. Has israel defeated Hamas yet?
This is an āAdvance unedited versionā meaning itās not officially published by the UN, itās only shared for review.
Additionally, Francesca Albanese drafted this document, multiple sources indicate about ther controversial and bias, as for the fact she justifies Hamas 7th Oct. massacre.
Hence, Israel is not officially commiting a genocide, and your accusations of it are wrong.
There will never be permanent ceasefire because Hamas dictate that Palestine, an area in which, over 2000 years, have been living more than dozens of ethnicities (i.e. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Ancient Greeks, Ancient Romans, Turkish, Britishā¦), is religiously and exclusively belong to only Arabic Muslim Palestinians.
I mean, having a hostage generally implies your intent is to hold that person captive in exchange for a demand being fulfilled, after which point you at least claim that you will release them. Presumably, Israel doesnt intend or claim that it will release those it has imprisoned even if it gets what it wants, so calling them hostages wouldnt really be accurate. One could call the people held by Hamas prisoners too I suppose, since that just implies them to be held against their will, but as they are explicitly being held in order to be used as a bargaining chip, calling them hostages adds more information about the situation than just calling them prisoners too would.
You make sense, and I sort of agree so I wonāt downvote and just add my bit. The āprisonersā are definitely being used as negotiation leverage in every discussion with Hamas.
I know this goes against the grain of what is being portrayed but a prisoner is also someone who has done something wrong where a hostage is totally innocent
I agree there would be more innocent people than average in those prisons. Iām not under any illusion there arenāt some really awful people in there too.
Israel calls the system it uses to imprison people without trial or even charges āadministrative detentionā. Itās hostage taking under a sanitized name and in terms of #'s Israel is provably many times worse than already-terrible Hamas.
āBefore October 7, the number of Palestinians held by Israel under administrative detention was already at a 20-year high. According to the Israeli human rights organization BāTselem, there were 1,310 Palestinians imprisoned without charge or trial at the end of September, including at least 146 minors. Since then, Israel has dramatically increased its use of administrative detention, pushing the number of detainees to over 2,000 within the first four weeks of the war. (Thatās out of a total of roughly 7,000 Palestinian prisoners.)ā
People are often imprisoned for no other reason than Israelis donāt like them. Sometimes itās social media posts. The average length of detention without trial or charge is a year. So if an Israeli soldier doesnāt like you being free, you can lose a year of your life being abused in prison for no other reason. There is an appeals process, but a report showed appeals failed 98.8% of the time from 2015-17 and there were no successes at all in 2023. "The overall figure is outrageous,ā Montell said. āThis is a patently illegal practice. These people should be given a fair trial or released.ā
So what would you call it when people are violently taken form there home by an occupying force, are not charged with or convicted for any crime by a court of law and are not granted access to any legal representation?
Because that is what Israeli āImprisonmentā of Palestinians in the Westbank looks like. Oh and of course the women and children are raped and people are tortured.
Point 1 l: that is just semantics so not really relevant. Hamas could have easily said that they arrested the Israeli hostages for a crime and it wouldnāt have changed anything.
Point 2: Iām not sure that the Palestinians held without charge have any functional rights.
Point 3: Thatās just an assumption on both sides of this conflict. Hamas do have access to medical professionals and it is in their best interest to keep the hostages alive. Obviously, Israel does also have access to medical professionals but Iām not sure that the Palestinians have free access to them either. Iād hope that Israel would give medical attention when itās needed but I donāt know.
Point 4: Thatās just rubbish as a general definition of prisoner around the world and the Palestinian prisoners are definitely being used in the negotiations.
Is that any different than depicting the slaughter thatās occurred since then, with a body count over 10x higher, as āIsrael arresting Palestinians?ā
The only person being dishonest here is you. The slaughtering of 1000 civilians at a music festival was abhorrent, and the slaughtering of 30,000 more civilians in response is 30x as abhorrent. Calling the capture and torture of individuals as āarrestsā makes you no better than Cheney and Bush with their āenhanced interrogationā bullshit.
The Israelis held by Hamas have been given many more rights than the average Palestinian prisoner.
This is an outright lie, Palestinians are being amputated because of zipties to their limbs
Again, Israel has no interest in ārehabilitatingā its hostages, whereas Hamas is specifically offering to release theirs.
At worst this is hostages on both sides. Your assessment only proves how much more hospitable Hamas have been to its captives than Israel, even at a time of war and famine brought on by Israelās onslaught.
Israel forcibly dragged Palestinians out of their homes and took them to unknown locations. Arrested versus abducted is a distinction without a difference.
Israel isnāt rehabilitating anyone in West Bank or Gaza, they are keeping them in cramped rooms with no access to lawyers or families and are held months without charges.
Your comment just doesnāt reflect reality. Ben-Gvir invited reporters to see prisoners and bragged that heās intentionally starving them in captivity as revenge for hostages.
Abduction and arrest are identical. An arrest is abduction by the state renamed to honor their monopoly of violence.
Prisoners and hostages have as much rights as the holding entity says they do.
This is you just guessing on how Hamas handles their prisoners. Also isnāt necessarily the same. I can tell you as a former Texas department of criminal justice officer that denying inmates medical checkups is common. Both officially and unofficially. Thereās an inmate in solitary who hasnāt had a checkup hes been asking for for a year because no one who interacts with him bothers to actually do it. Go fuck yourself with that one
Loooooooool thatās fucking hilarious. Go to prison and experience your rehabilitation bitch
