Roku TV bricked until agreeing to new terms of service

See title - very frustrating. There is no way to continue to use the TV without agreeing to the terms. I couldn’t use different inputs, or even go to settings from the home screen and disconnect from the internet to disable their services. If I don’t agree to their terms, then I don’t get access to their new products. That sucks, but fine - I don’t use their services except for the TV itself, and honestly, I’d rather by a dumb TV with a streaming box anyway, but I can’t find those anymore.

Anyway, the new terms are about waiving your right to a class action lawsuit. It’s weird to me because I’d never considered filing a class action lawsuit against Roku until this. They shouldn’t be able to hold my physical device hostage until I agree to new terms that I didn’t agree at the time of purchase or initial setup.

I wish Roku TVs weren’t cheap walmart brand sh*t. Someone with some actual money might sue them and sort this out…

EDIT: Shout out to @testfactor for recommending the brand “Sceptre” when buying my next (dumb) TV.

EDIT2: Shout out to @0110010001100010 for recommending LG smart TVs as a dumb-TV stand in. They apparently do require an agreement at startup, which is certainly NOT ideal, but the setup can be completed without an internet connection and it remembers input selection on powerup. So, once you have it setup, you’re good to rock and roll.

blusterydayve26 ,

Did the old device agreement allow them to brick it until you agreed to the new agreement? If not, I say file that class action.

Quadhammer ,

Ive got a TOS for them:

SECTION I

a. This contract expressly and to the fullest extent of the law binds that I did not read, nor am I bound to the terms and agreement laid out in any agreement that I agreed to. Any financial gains are automatically won by me in arbitration and any losses acrued are paid for by the Company to me with interest. Here is a vague copy/paste of about 9 more incoherent paragraphs full of “legal jargon” that never really state any clear purpose or definition of services rendered.

…

SECTION IX.

a. BY READING OR NOT READING THIS NOTICE COMPANY ASSUMES AND ACCEPTS ANY AND ALL FINANCIAL LIABILITY THEREIN. COMPANY AGREES TO PAY ME $75,000 FOR EDITING THIS CONTRACT (STANDARD GOING RATE PER DAY) PER DAY EFFECTIVE FOR 3 DAYS MAXIMUM TOTALING $225,000 PLUS TAXES AND INTEREST PAID.

b. COMPANY HAS UP TO 5 DAYS TO RESPOND TO AND DISPUTE THIS CONTRACT(They can’t. It is legally and eternally binding). THANKS FOR THE MONEY NERDS

bostonbananarama ,

Anyway, the new terms are about waiving your right to a class action lawsuit. It’s weird to me because I’d never considered filing a class action lawsuit against Roku until this. I wish Roku TVs weren’t cheap walmart brand sh*t. Someone with some actual money might sue them and sort this out…

The good thing about class action lawsuits is that you don’t need money. The law firms are just about the only ones that get paid. If you pay attention to class action settlements it’s often something like $3m in attorneys fees, $5,000 to the named plaintiffs, and then a 3 month subscription to the companies own service or a refund of out of pocket expenses, during a specified period, not to exceed $150 per person.

Long story short, firms are more than happy to take on a class action that can be won, but you won’t get much.

dumpsterlid ,

I like everyone saying “but this is surely illegal!” as if these corporations actually care. At least in the US, it really doesn’t matter what the law says at this point.

Corporations will do what they want and the law will be modified to reflect that, this is the current status quo and it is going to take significant political action (specifically making rich people afraid again to piss the rest of us off too much) to make it change.

PilferJynx ,

It’s just an exhausting uphill battle that never ends. I don’t have the time or resources to combat monied corporations.

aesthelete ,

At this point, it’s like they’re trying to get everyone to pirate everything.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

It’s just an exhausting uphill battle that never ends. I don’t have the time or resources to combat monied corporations.

Call your House of Representative member and tell them that.

recapitated ,

I would like to see legislation that forces optional recalls or refunds whenever TOS updates modify the usability and viability of a product.

Corkyskog ,

Honestly I feel like the real reason they are working everyone down to the bone is so they don’t have time to go to small claims court. If everyone did that individually these companies would die so quickly.

recapitated ,

2024: the year of the raspberry pi tv

JackbyDev ,

You still need a TV though. OP cannot switch inputs.

theangryseal ,

I have a dumb 4k tv. It’s cheap, it won’t meet everyone’s needs, but I really really really don’t want a smart tv.

It’s a Sceptre. Cheap enough that if it breaks it won’t break your heart to replace it.

recapitated ,

Funny, I got a large Toshiba with fire TV because it was the cheapest option when I was looking, loaded with surveillance capitalism from Amazon.

Regretted it immediately, I would pay double for a dumb tv next time.

theangryseal ,

My tv is wonky as hell sometimes. I have to spray the volume button with contact cleaner from time to time or it turns itself up or down.

It’s fine other than that though haha.

DaleGribble88 OP ,
@DaleGribble88@programming.dev avatar

Sceptre seems to be a popular brand mentioned in this thread. Thanks for the input!

timtoon ,

Starting it up without an internet connection will prevent the pop-up from locking you out of your own device

timtoon ,

You have 30 days to opt out by sending a letter to:

General Counsel, Roku Inc.
1701 Junction Court, Suite 100
San Jose, CA 95112

Letter must include:

  • Name of each person opting out, contact info
  • product model
  • software version
  • email address (optional)
  • copy of receipt (optional)
tomkatt ,

Shit like this is why my LG C1 is restricted to LAN access only in my router (local network for automation purposes) and can’t communicate with the internet.

ohlaph ,

I think the purpose of roku is to stream though, so it needs Internet. Unless it can serve local stuff, that I uave no idea about.

COASTER1921 ,

This is referring to the Roku built into many TVs. So you have no choice but to deal with it at least a little bit for switching between your HDMI/PC inputs. The reason this case is so bad is that it literally prevents you from using any input or device until you find the Roku remote that came with the TV and click accept. The TV is a “brick” until you do this.

CosmicCleric , (edited )
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Sections 1(F) and 1(L) seem like the only ways out/around of this. (IANAL; the bolding emphasis was done by me.)

F. Small Claims. You or Roku may pursue any Claim, except IP Claims, in a small-claims court instead of through arbitration if (i) the Claim meets the jurisdictional requirements of the small claims court and (ii) the small claims court does not permit class or similar representative actions or relief.

L. 30-Day Right to Opt Out. You have the right to opt out of arbitration by sending written notice of your decision to opt out to the following address by mail: General Counsel, Roku Inc., 1701 Junction Court, Suite 100, San Jose, CA 95112 within 30 days of you first becoming subject to these Dispute Resolution Terms. Such notice must include the name of each person opting out and contact information for each such person, the specific product models, software, or services used that are at issue, the email address that you used to set up your Roku account (if you have one), and, if applicable, a copy of your purchase receipt. For clarity, opt-out notices submitted via any method other than mail (including email) will not be effective. If you send timely written notice containing the required information in accordance with this Section 1(L), then neither party will be required to arbitrate the Claims between them.

Ajen ,

You need your original purchase receipt to opt out? I hope that’s not legal. I wonder if roku could be subject to a lawsuit over this…

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

You need your original purchase receipt to opt out? I hope that’s not legal. I wonder if roku could be subject to a lawsuit over this…

IANAL, but the answer to your question would depend on the bolded part of the clause (‘if applicable’)…

Such notice must include the name of each person opting out and contact information for each such person, the specific product models, software, or services used that are at issue, the email address that you used to set up your Roku account (if you have one), and, if applicable, a copy of your purchase receipt.

Who decides what is applicable or not, and if the applicable scenarios are not listed in the terms, then are any applicable?

How does someone who is not a lawyer determine this so they can make an informed decision before they can agree to it?

Ajen ,

IANAL, but the answer to your question would depend on the bolded part of the clause (‘if applicable’)…

It also depends on whether that clause is enforceable.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

It also depends on whether that clause is enforceable.

True, but enforceable or not is different from what I was asking about though.

For the sake of argument let’s say that it is enforceable. How then does a regular person, a non-lawyer, understand what they’re agreeing to, when verbiage is used like what I’ve quoted above.

spaghettiwestern ,

IMO opting out is meaningless.

Despite the fact that attorneys are the primary beneficiaries of class action suits, the settlement dollar amounts are often high enough to give companies like Roku pause before they make consumer hostile changes. Not enough people will jump through Roku’s absurd opt-out hoops to make a class action suit worthwhile for attorneys, and thus those lawsuits won’t be filed in the first place, removing any risk to Roku no matter what BS they pull. They simply don’t give a fuck and don’t want that to end up costing them.

Of course the few people who opt-out can sue on their own, but the settlement dollars will be insignificant to a company the size of Roku.

Years ago being beneficial to the community was part of the mission statement of many corporations. That slowly disappeared and companies moved to customer service theater. Now even the pretense of being of benefit to communities and customers is being dropped and companies are regularly openly hostile outside their PR departments. And they wonder why people hate them.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Imagine the paperwork though (processing, tracking, etc.) that they would have to go through if everyone did send in a letter, option out.

I mean, we can stay cynical, stay beaten down, or we can push back. If enough people push back, you’ll definitely see change.

The problem is there’s always someone convincing people not to push back online, for some strange reason.

spaghettiwestern ,

Lol! So you’re going to punish Roku about their consumer hostile stance with some extra paperwork? That’s the ticket!

Very, very few people will even take 10 minutes to open an online AG complaint about a company that is directly harming them by openly breaking the law. You think a comment on Lemmy (or anywhere) is going to make a damn bit of difference to a legal corporate practice that started long before social media existed?

I know a guy who has deal on a really great bridge…

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

You think a comment on Lemmy (or anywhere) is going to make a damn bit of difference

Funny you should accuse me of that. You might want to take a look at this post I just made on the same day I replied to you…

lemmy.world/comment/8140817

The only point I’m trying to make is don’t be cynical and just sit on your ass, and do nothing about it. Even if the only things you can do are small things, they’re still things that you’re doing.

At the very least you can look at yourself in the mirror, and if you’re lucky, you may help affect real change.

spaghettiwestern ,

Sending opt-out letters to Roku, no matter how many the receive won’t make the slightest bit of difference and you know it. The points I made in my post are perfectly valid, both in respect to Roku and corporations in general. Affecting real change has nothing to do with Roku or a thousand opt-out letters.

Real, lasting change at this point can only be accomplished politically. Corporations will only change because they’re forced to and that doesn’t have a damn thing to do with my comment, or with yours.

So get off your high-horse, quit with the straw-man arguments and look at your own fucking self in the mirror.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

So get off your high-horse, quit with the straw-man arguments and look at your own fucking self in the mirror.

NO U!

spaghettiwestern ,

LOL! Did you learn that in nursery school?

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

You’re a ‘having the last word’ type of person, aren’t ya?

neomachino ,

I don’t see how this could be legal at all and how any of those terms could be applicable. My 2 year old found the remote today and he loves buttons, so naturally he pushed every button on there. I thought nothing of it but saw something pop up and then disappear, I assumed it was an error or something from the button mashing, but I guess my 2 year old agreed to rokus new TOS.

ShaggySnacks ,

Anyone else getting radicalized because of this?

soggy_kitty , (edited )

Yup. My LG TV has 85% of its features “disabled” until I accept new terms which is an acceptable middleground.

I wanted a high quality OLED display over 50inch, good luck finding one without voice control or adverts lol

itsnotits ,

85% of its* features

soggy_kitty ,

Edited the one character typo for you, the internet is saved.

A_Random_Idiot ,
@A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world avatar

Molotovs are easy to make and solve a lot of problems, just sayin

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

When I have a problem, I just throw a molotov cocktail and BOOM. Now I have a different problem.

ShaggySnacks ,

To be fair, your original problem has been solved.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

(is a Good Place reference)

recapitated ,

That’s probably really cute and fun to think about. Unfortunately we don’t live in a comic book universe.

Godric ,

Exactly, no asshole in spandex is gonna stop you!

BlackPenguins ,

BOOOOORRTLES

BlackPenguins ,

Is this what Tucker Carlson meant by I’m radicalized? Us damn rich Americans and our smart TVs.

ShaggySnacks ,

Woah, you have money…? Actual money to spend on wants instead of needs.

muculent ,

Take a brick to Roku until it agrees to your terms.

aesthelete ,

Mac address ban the TV from your network and it should work but will no longer have Internet access. I just did this locally and it worked for the one, have to go out but will do it on the other one as well.

aesthelete ,

In order to prevent it from blinking, factory reset the TV once it’s unconnected to the network, and then make sure to not reconnect it to the Internet during the setup process. Afterwards, you’ll be stuck trying to find ways to replicate all of the built-in functionality of the TV like I now am. I had no idea the Chromecast w/ google TV’s apps had such shitty surround support…anyone know a good replacement device? The ONN streamers are similar in that they basically only put out PCM stereo for Hulu.

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