Mastengwe ,

The bOtH siDeS crew must be losing their minds

null ,
@null@slrpnk.net avatar

Recently, I was arguing with one, and they unironically suggested we'd be in a better position now if Trump had won in 2020.

Which is to say, I think you need to have one first in order to lose it.

LodeMike ,

Was it a body slam? Trump is quite fat.

some_guy ,

Sociopaths.

gregorum ,
@gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

Oh, the Nazis are angry that a genocide is being paused? What a shocker!

Ensign_Crab ,

Until very recently, centrist Democrats were calling anyone who suggested withholding weapons russian chinese child shill bot tankie fascists.

disguy_ovahea OP ,

I think you mean Republicans. Current polls show 58% of them are still in support of Israel.

https://zeteo.com/p/gaza-israel-genocide-poll-ceasefire-us-voters

Ensign_Crab ,

I know what I meant, and so do you. Of course Republicans are dogshit.

But I'm not gonna pretend that centrists weren't screaming abuse at people who opposed genocide until three days ago.

disguy_ovahea OP ,

The only pushback I know of was regarding protesting at the polls. Otherwise, pro-Palestinian protests have been largely popular on Lemmy. Are you being sincere, or attempting to gaslight?

Ensign_Crab ,

What distilled fucking hogwash. The fact of the matter is, anytime anyone said that Biden should stop supporting genocide, centrists would immediately assume that the person saying it was advocating for voting for Trump or not voting at all.

And you could say you were voting for Biden over and over and they wouldn't believe you and continue the abuse.

And you're seriously gonna sit there and lie about it. You're gonna pretend that centrists haven't spent the past few months being utterly vicious toward anyone who said that Biden should stop supporting genocide? And you're accusing me of gaslighting?

Tell me again how we totally left Iraq in 2007.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

No, what I saw people bristling at mostly were either 1) injecting "yeah, well Biden sucks because genocide" into conversations about Trump or about the election or something in that arena, or 2) people jumping into conversations and rattling off low-effort posts with things like "Genocide Joe" namecalling or just purposeless negativity.

I haven't seen many cases where people have pushed back on people who appeared to be trying to have honest discussions and didn't appear to be trying to justify supporting Trump.

The general feeling has absolutely been that Biden needs to stop fucking supporting genocide (although people have also definitely tried to say how he's doing the best he can given limited influence and all options being shitty in some way, or how he's using the weapons shipments as bargaining chips, or whatever).

Ensign_Crab ,

Guess if you never speak out against genocide, you never get pushback for speaking out against genocide.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

I guess; what does that have to do with my comment

Ensign_Crab ,

Have you considered why your experience differs from mine?

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Oh no,the Democrats used a mean name you didn't like.

Please show us on the doll where that hurt you.

Ensign_Crab ,

Oh no, Biden stopped sending bombs for genocide. I'm sorry that you can't always get 100% of everything you want, but you should vote blue no matter who anyway. Unless you want Trump to win.

Donjuanme ,

Are we not pointing out "slammed" any more? I'm okay with that trend dying.

TokenBoomer ,

Now you know it’s the right thing to do.

Pistcow ,

So that means it's a good idea.

foggy ,

Good. that's the message we need to go back and forth here to get uneducated voters away from voting trump because "Biden genocide". Trump will be worse.

disguy_ovahea OP , (edited )

*Trump is worse for everyone that’s not a straight rich white Christian industrialist male with a subterranean bunker.

He’s legitimately good for those guys.

Edit: Whoosh.

homesweethomeMrL ,

Depends. How do you like your government officials? Competent? Or no?

disguy_ovahea OP ,

Who do you believe to be more competent? The guy who rambles on until the media cuts him off and farts himself awake during trial daily, or the guy that’s four years older than him?

foggy ,

Is that a serious question?

The guy 4 years older than him.

10,000:1

disguy_ovahea OP , (edited )

You do you. Agree to disagree.

Edit: I reversed what you said in my head. Yes, I would take Biden over Trump any day.

Frog-Brawler ,
@Frog-Brawler@kbin.social avatar

I’ll go with the guy that wasn’t explicitly referenced as the one “who rambles on until the media cuts him off and fart himself awake during trial daily.” Shit, the fact that people are considering someone who’s in trial daily is incredibly disappointing.

disguy_ovahea OP ,

Agreed. My description wasn’t accidental.

Rapidcreek ,

Trump and Congressional Republicans sat on foreign aid for six months and now they have the balls to criticize

disguy_ovahea OP , (edited )

They didn’t just sit. On multiple occasions they attempted to draft legislation to provide Israel with aid independent of Ukraine and Taiwan. Biden said he’d veto any attempts to pass a standalone Israel aid bill in February, and yet they tried again after the Iran retaliation.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/05/joe-biden-veto-republican-standalone-israel-aid-bill

Rapidcreek ,

Actually, they demanded that all foreign aid was wrapped into one package and border security be added. So, there was a long negotiation on border security. The Senate got through that, passed it and sent it to the House. Trump then told the House Republicans that he wanted to use border security as a campaign issue. So Johnson sat on it another three months, created his own bill without border security, and passed it. The Senate followed, and put it on Biden’s desk.

Ranvier ,

Yes you're both correct. It was during that three month period (late January to April) after the version with border security got killed by Trump's meddling, where Republicans were trying to push a stand alone Israel aid bill without Ukraine aid, and Biden issued his veto threat to any standalone Israel aid bill. The article the person you're replying to linked was in February, after the border security version one with everything together had failed.

Rapidcreek ,

Sure, Johnson was trying to find alternatives and decided just to strip out border security in the end. He and Trump figured out that if Ukraine was lost they would be blamed. Biden, for his part, didn't want piecemeal legislation at that point.

Zippy ,

This election couldn't come sooner.

InternetUser2012 ,

If that's how you feel, you're in for a bad next four and half years.

Zippy ,

I think Biden will get back in. That will be far better than hearing from Trump anymore..

gregorum ,
@gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

This is literally their job.

Rapidcreek ,

That is literally not doing their job.

gregorum ,
@gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

Exactly.

disguy_ovahea OP ,

This is what abstaining from voting will invite for protesters and Palestinians.

homesweethomeMrL ,

We tried to tell them.

disguy_ovahea OP , (edited )

Future tense. We should continue to try. I won’t judge someone who votes for Trump with conviction. The voter disenfranchisement manipulation on Lemmy is what needs to be challenged. It’s an unethical disengagement strategy, historically used by Republicans to disenfranchise Democratic voters.

TokenBoomer ,

Lemmy didn’t cause this:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/63c0d086-846f-4348-843e-5c26aa0a0827.png

disguy_ovahea OP , (edited )

No it didn’t. Those protests are driving the change we keep seeing in the news, and I applaud them for it. They wouldn’t do anything but get arrested and vilified if Trump were in office, as he said in the posted article.

[Biden is] ”taking the side of these terrorists, just like he has sided with the Radical Mobs taking over our college campuses."

TokenBoomer ,

I don’t think Macklemore is on Lemmy.

We can offer evidence and opinions, but people are gonna vote as individuals, as they should. Motivating others to vote for Biden was always going to be an uphill struggle because of his age, but with the ongoing genocide… whew… it just makes people defensive and hardens their resolve to defend their position.

disguy_ovahea OP ,

That’s fine. Healthy debate is good for the democratic process. Biden certainly has flaws. I personally see many more in Trump. The point is, people should vote, and encouraging others to abstain is disingenuous and unethical.

As for the genocide, Biden is currently pulling away from Israel and Trump literally just said that the US should do the opposite in the posted article. That’s not really an argument.

Ensign_Crab , (edited )

I'm sure centrists have some conspiracy theory for why the genocide they supported for so long isn't as popular as they wanted it to be.

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

The one in Ukraine? Those tankies seem to be FINE with it.

Ensign_Crab ,

We haven't been sending weapons to Russia in order to commit genocide.

Thank you for the demonstration of exactly what I was talking about. Centrists can't imagine that Netanyahu's genocide isn't as popular with everyone else as it is with centrists, so they have to pretend that there are tankies behind every rock.

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

That's a map.

We're discussing voter manipulation and encouraged disengagement of voters.

Stop being dense.

TokenBoomer ,

It’s a map of potential voters that conceivably won’t vote for Biden. Which is entirely relevant because despite the success of swaying voters on Lemmy, it is still a drop in the bucket compared to overall disengagement.

The point- When Biden loses in November, it will be erroneous to blame it on the small number of voters on Lemmy. The blame will rest on Biden and the DNC, not the small numbers of voters on Lemmy.

homesweethomeMrL ,

I would legitimately be interested to hear what convictions a trump voter had that were real, actual, policy positions.

They’re just generic sales slogans and whatever gaffes he makes that the crowd applauds loudest for. Not actual considered positions.

disguy_ovahea OP ,

That’s largely been my experience too, but I’m willing to hear out anything other than the “you can’t vote for that guy” line anymore. Trump’s base will vote him in if enough abstain. Inaction is action.

tiefling ,

BuT bOtH SIdEs, cAnT YoU sEe I'm e n L I g H t E N e D?

Mastengwe ,

Been telling them this for a long time now. Can’t get past their outrage.

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