Alameda County prosecutors allegedly excluded Black people and Jews from death penalty juries ( oaklandside.org )

In an order issued today, U.S. District Court Judge Vince Chhabria said that the hand-written notes of prosecutors from a 31-year-old murder case “constitute strong evidence that, in prior decades, prosecutors from the [Alameda County District Attorney’s] office were engaged in a pattern of serious misconduct, automatically excluding Jewish and African American jurors in death penalty cases.”

Archived at web.archive.org/…/alameda-county-prosecutors-alle…

BertramDitore ,
@BertramDitore@lemmy.world avatar

If you feel you have to exclude certain types of people because you think they might demonstrate too much empathy or compassion, then the system obviously needs more empathy and compassion.

gAlienLifeform OP , (edited )
@gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world avatar

When an individual prosecutor shits all over the Constitution's guarantees of equality before the law, and they take efforts to conceal those actions, that is a knowingly bad act and an individual who deserves some accountability

When those actions stay covered up for over three decades because nobody in the system bothered to get a second plants at any of this, that's a system that deserves some accountability

e; like, I personally am a big proponent of needing more empathy and compassion within our system, thought for the type of person who that argument doesn't connect with, I think there's a very strong "We fought a civil war and certified a constitutional amendment to deal with crap like this, don't reopen this Pandora's box" argument to be made

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The apparent attempts to exclude Black and Jewish people from juries in homicide cases may have been based upon the belief that these groups would be less likely to convict someone if a death sentence was possible.

It's almost as if you're not part of cisgendered, white, Christian, male, heteronormative subsection of society, you see how inherently unjust our so-called justice system is, isn't it?

Cosmonauticus ,

Stop leaving out white women. They're the least likely to be convicted and even when they are they receive the least amount of time when sentenced. They benefit just as much as white men if not more and have been active participants of the injustices of the court system for centuries. You should try asking Emmett Till about his experience with white women and the justice system.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Racial bias in jury selection is a bigger problem, but gender bias is still a problem.

https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2023/07/analysis-court-transcripts-reveals-biased-jury-selection

Also, women were not made eligible to serve on juries in Mississippi until after Till was murdered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_United_States_juries#Timeline

Cosmonauticus ,

I was referring more to the fact that a white woman was directly responsible for his murder and used a biased court system to avoid punishment

Racial bias in jury selection is a bigger problem, but gender bias is still a problem.

Which is why I think it's disingenuous to exclude white women from your point as they are more likely to be selected for jury duty than anyone else besides a white male

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Which... still makes it a jury bias problem?

I'm not sure why you think 'less discrimination than other groups are discriminated against' is acceptable when it comes to jury selection.

Cosmonauticus ,

I'm not only telling about jury bias. I'm talking about the justice system as a whole.

I'm not sure why you think 'less discrimination than other groups are discriminated against' is acceptable when it comes to jury selection

Because in cases with all white juries (even those with white women) they're still more likely to convict a black defendant.

Among the key findings:-- In cases with no blacks in the jury pool, blacks were convicted 81 percent of the time, and whites were convicted 66 percent of the time. The estimated difference in conviction rates rises to 16 percent when the authors controlled for the age and gender of the jury and the year and county in which the trial took place

So while being discriminated themselves they contribute to the overall bigger problem of racial discrimination. You don't get a pass when you're an active participant in making things worse regardless of whatever discrimination you face.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not only telling about jury bias. I’m talking about the justice system as a whole.

Okay, but this is about jury bias, as have my posts been, so if you wanted to change the subject, you should have said so.

Because in cases with all white juries (even those with white women) they’re still more likely to convict a black defendant.

That still doesn't mean that a bias against women, even if they are white, is not a problem. And no one was arguing in favor of all-white juries, so I'm not sure why you're even bringing that up.

Cosmonauticus ,

Because your original comment placed the blame solely on straight white even though white women are a major part of jury bias towards minorities

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Which still doesn't change the fact that there is a gender bias in jury selection. Bias in jury selection is always bad. Racial bias is bad, religious bias is bad, gender bias is bad. The whole point is to not have a jury of just white men. I'm not sure why that doesn't include women to you just because they might be white.

Or are you saying white people shouldn't be on juries at all?

Cosmonauticus ,

No one is arguing gender bias isn't a problem but seeing this article is mainly about racial/ethnic bias you deciding to lay the blame at the feet of only white men makes no sense considering white women are also part of the problem.

The point is to not have a jury of only WHITE PPL because statistically a jury made up of only white men and women are just as biased as a group of only white men.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Please quote me when I laid blame at the feet of only white men.

The point is to not have a jury of only WHITE PPL

Again, no one is arguing in favor of that. Not me, not anyone else.

Cosmonauticus ,

It's almost as if you're not part of cisgendered, white, male, heteronormative subsection of society, you see how inherently unjust our so-called justice system is, isn't it?

This isn't solely blaming white men?

You literally distanced everyone who isn't a white straight male from the problem presented in the article including white women even though they are a major part of the problem. While this makes sense for black Latino, Asian and lgbtq groups including white women in that list is on some bullshit

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Blaming them for... not noticing something? Yes. Guilty.

Cosmonauticus ,

White women do it too....

And ignorance of injustice leads to more injustice

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Okay, I get it. White women are the worst people in the world and should be barred from being on juries.

Cosmonauticus ,

It almost like you can fight the injustices your gender faces while recognizing the privilege that comes with your race.

But I guess pretending white women do no wrong is easier for you. Also it doesn't help you're using a talking point white "all lives matter" men use.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I was talking about race this entire time. Literally over and over again.

I also don't remember pretending that white women can do no wrong.

When did I pretend such a thing?

That wouldn't be a lie, would it?

Cosmonauticus ,

You've basically argued this entire time that white women are not problematic when it comes to jury bias. While im criticizing the very real problems in the justice system white women are responsible for your response is

Okay, I get it. White women are the worst people in the world and should be barred from being on juries.

This is like arguing with a cop apologist

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You’ve basically argued this entire time that white women are not problematic when it comes to jury bias.

I have not argued that at all. I know that's what you want me to argue, but that's different.

Cosmonauticus ,

So you didn't exclude white women from the ignorance of the injustices minorities face from jury bias in your original comment? Because you did

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

No, I really didn't. Again, I know that's what you wanted me to do though.

gAlienLifeform OP ,
@gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world avatar

have been active participants of the injustices of the court system for centuries

This much is true and it is important to talk about to keep is from repeating history's mistakes

They benefit just as much as white men if not more

There are countless instances of sexual assault and domestic violence that cops and prosecutors have swept under rugs for decades that argue against that really strongly imo. Being victims of oppression doesn't excuse participating and upholding oppressive systems, but if we're going to tell the whole story let's tell the whole story.

Cosmonauticus ,

Agreed

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