For those choosing not to vote for Biden, voting for a genocidist in a US federal election doesn't put blood on your hands.
This isn't fabricated consent (I mean it is in that lumpins are told to believe they chose the government when they didn't).
Here's the thing: The office seat will be filled whether or not you vote. And you get one non-transferable vote.
This means you get to vote against the worse popular guy by voting for his most likely contender.
It's the trolley problem, only millions are voting on the position of the lever. What we cannot do is move the lever out of position.
It's still up to you. Taking action is harder than not taking action, but we are staring down Project 2025, the neutering of elections in the US and one-party autocracy (the Republican party), which will also speed up the dismantling of civil rights in the US. If you don't want that to happen, please consider voting against Trump and any other Republicans down ballot.
Yes, it sucks the US is reduced to this sorry state.
We didn't really build any of it. It was all designed by a bunch of old white slave owners over 200 years ago. What we can do now is keep things from getting worse and try to make steady progress along the way. Voting isn't everything, but it's still important.
We can and have improved things massively. What we cannot do is fix everything at one time. The most we can realistically hope for is marginal improvement. Demanding perfection or nothing results in us sliding backwards.
But look at 60 years ago. Racial discrimination wasn't only legal, but state-mandated in much of the country. Interracial marriage was illegal. Being homosexual was illegal. A woman could be fired for not sleeping with her boss or for becoming pregnant. Businesses couldn't operate on Sundays because it competed with church. Firearms could be purchased by anyone without a background check at any store. Politicians openly ran on the platform that the white race was superior. Poor kids and minorities were drafted and forced to fight in useless wars while rich people could get college deferments.
We're so, so much better today than we were then. I don't want to rant forever, so let's focus on one issue and go even more recent:
30 years ago the general public was so homophobic that a Democratic President signed a law banning openly gay people from serving in the military. Clinton then followed it up by signing the Defense of Marriage Act barring federal recognition of same-sex marriage and allowing states to refuse to recognize marriages granted by another state - even though no states allowed it at the time.
20 years ago gay marriage was still illegal in all 50 states (next Friday is actually the 20th anniversary of gay marriage in Massachusetts!). It wasn't until 2012 that the first states legalized gay marriage through popular votes.
It's been less than 10 years since gay marriage was legalized nationwide.
In 2010 the majority of the country was opposed to gay marriage. Today nearly 80 percent supports it. That's remarkable.
We've improved so much very, very quickly. It's just hard to see when there's so much more work to be done.
But it took work to make the progress we have. If we'd given up and simply chosen not to vote we'd have empowered those who fought change.
I'm just disappointed with people pretending to be against genocide while bothsidesing an overtly racist fragile demagogue who did a putsch. It's very clear which direction that party is headed.
The ones that get me are the ones that talk about voting 3rd party. A lot of them seem to understand that the 3rd party is not going to win and that their best case scenario is... I guess "Next time they'll listen to us and we'll get a real leftist?" So... Your solution to the genocide is wait 4 years to get someone who will directly end it? Bestie, I don't think Gaza will be around in 4 years. Even if you discount Trump's stated desire to be a dictator and Project 2025.
Or, what happens by the way if Biden wins in spite of them voting 3rd party? Surely it doesn't mean that they've directly proven to the Democrats that they literally don't need that voting bloc?
You got around 1% of the vote in 2016 up against two of the most hated people on the planet. Unfortunately a third party won't be anywhere near the executive branch unless the voting system is changed.
If you're choice is continually between a corrupt carrier politician & a literal facist you don't really have a functional democracy. I would suggest you go learn how to use a tourniquet/pressure bandage & a rifle.
We haven't had a functioning democracy since the 19th century.
There's argument to be made we didn't have a functioning democracy when the Constitution was ratified in 1789, since segments of it were clearly written in bad faith (like the electoral college, the 3/5s of all non-free persons clause, and arguably, the failure to offer suffrage to all persons including women), but Boss Tweed in 1852 already understood how to game the elections so that only approved candidates might make it to primaries (of New York State elections and Federal elections).
In the aughts (the 2000s), Oxford University did a study regarding elections, public interests and elite interests, and determined the US behaved more like an oligarchy than a democratic republic, so yeah, we're a plutocracy with some democratic features. However those democratic features, while meager, keep the US from turning into a single-party autocracy like the German Reich or the late-stage USSR.
And we're moving towards that autocracy, propped up by fascist ideology (with enemy within rhetoric, and purge actions to follow) with every year. The next time the Republican takes control of all three federal branches of government, the game is very likely up.
The US is also on the brink of civil war, and it may be sparked by Trump losing, depending on how large and coordinated the coup d'etat effort is at the time, or if Trump wins, by an attack against those resisting draconian policies.
Also worth noting, this is not mutually exclusive with other efforts! Keep pressuring the Democratic party, keep protesting, keep boycotting Israel-invested companies!
This post just makes me more convinced that we're going to see another Trump term... I'm not in the US, but from over here I can't see how it doesn't go that way.
The good news is, this sort of thing doesn't reach the vast majority of Americans, since most of us aren't hyper online, and definitely not on Twitter.
The bad news is, this rhetoric seems popular (from what I hear) on Tiktok, where the youths are. And if the youths don't vote for Biden as much as we need, then yeah we're boned.
I've lost faith in the US voters after 2016. We held our nose knowing Clinton was a neoconservative recognizing that Trump would be much much worse (and was pretty terrible!). Trump lost the majority but won the EC, and the EC failed to do what it was supposed to do (conspire to elect someone other than the obvious tyrant) so, well, we got Trump in his pajamas obeying Leonard Leo and Steve Miller while Mattis kept him from nuking North Korea.
It reminded me of George W. Bush, who also lost the popular vote to Gore, but won the EC with a little help from friends in SCOTUS (and Leonard Leo), which was far worse than we imagined it would be after Bush's compassionate conservative thing. I believed Republicans couldn't actually get a president elected again, because there was no way we were going to forget the $3 trillion price-tag of Iraq, the torture, the open-ended war on terror, Halliburton's war profiteering and so on. It was such a shit show I expected it to be seared into the minds of Americans. Heck, Bush crawled away as the subprime mortgage crisis hit, so we were all feeling bummed.
The world gave Obama the Nobel Peace Prize just for not being Bush.
Nope, it turns out eight years later (with, granted, the War on Terror and mass surveillance getting worse) we forgot the ones who got us into it in the first place. And as much as Trump looked like a rabid monster, having freshly stolen the GOP from all the other cookie-cutter prospects, ready to bring fascism on like The Producers, Clinton was so hated that they just couldn't see Trump for what he was. (To be fair, millions of Protestant Evangelist Christians were being told from the pulpit Jesus wanted them to vote for Trump -- something they're not supposed to do while remaining a tax-free church. White Evangelists voted for him at a rate around 80%)
So now we're here, and I'm reminded of LBJ's lowest white man comment (attributed), If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you. Apparently some Americans really do go all in for that kind of ideology, even as the nation world burns down around them.
There's also the imminent possibility of civil war. Trump will try to organize a coup d'etat if he loses the election, and it is a matter if it can be adequately detected and repelled (or squelched before it gets started).
Biden also isnt the one doing a genocide. He's the one trying to navigate a complex geopolitical clusterfuck, while dealing a genocidal maniac who very clearly wants Donald Trump to win so he can turn the genocide up to 11.
The intentional willingness to suck all nuance out of this conversation and reduce it to a single binary purity test is complete madness. It's hard to believe anyone pushing this rhetoric is operating in good faith.
Sure maybe not committing genocide with his hands, but hitler also didn't kill all the jews with his hands. Sending weapons and funding it is just as bad.
Neither does mine, but I'm still doing it. Worst cae, the popular vote being very far from the electoral college results highlights some of the absurdity in the system, which is a vital part of accumulating support for changing the system. Best case, I don't understand the political landscape of my state as well as I think I do, and I contribute to it turning blue, even for a single election.
Or maybe people can't bring themselves to vote for someone funding and enabling a genocide. I'll be voting for a 3rd party candidate so there won't be blood on my hands.
You do you tho but don't be surprised when people shit on you for supporting a genocide when you tell them you voted for Biden
likewise, voting for a third party, also equally i would argue, supports a genocide. Due to the fact that the US is almost explicitly two party, the third party is really just the 12 people in a city who think they're better than whatever the fuck else exists, even though ultimately about 14 people will vote for said party, and one of those is someone who doesn't know any of the candidates.
Politics is hell, life is hell, the world is hell, i consider this to be a form of astroturfing to be completely honest. Nothing you do is going to make a significant difference, you need to be conscious of that, unless we have a ranked choice voting system with like 5 candidates, where the win is by plurality and not the fucking majority percent, then it literally does not matter who you vote for. (when it comes down to this kind of proxy war bullshit that seems to inflame people so aggressively, on a macro scale, it's different, i'm just making a point)
Just for the record, so you don't think im some sort of morally superior fuckhead twat, i'm not voting this cycle. I'm worse than anybody voting. Literally anything you do is going to be better than me. At the very least, nobody can say i support genocide, because i am ambivalent to it. This is the road you are toeing close to my friend.
What kind of Backwoods fucking logic is that.... so choosing not to vote for the two candidates who are pro genocide makes me pro genocide? The fuck are you saying?
God you fucking neo libs are dumber than fucking conservatives at this point.
i'm saying that it makes no quantifiable difference, in the same way that me not voting, literally does nothing. The fact that you are also basically not voting (third party candidates pull basically nothing most of the time)
As a result, the likely people to go into power, are well... The two candidates who "support genocide" This is just how two party systems tend to work. You need like 5 different candidates with plurality voting for it to really matter. Once you start having that level of candidacy the numbers become significantly more spread out due to the fact that candidates have more varied policies. Moving it from majority vote win, to plurality vote win. I.E. Significantly more attainable, stable, and a lot more applicable to an entire countries governmental policies.
Maybe i'm fucking wrong, and maybe this third party individual is fucking incredible, once in a lifetime political handling abilities and is going to bump straight through all the bullshit and right into the presidency. I'm not willing to bet on it though. Currently the political system is so aggressively polarized, that we are "voting between a fascist, and someone who isn't that fascist" so if we want to "not be fascist" our best option here is going to be voting for the party who is "not fascist" because you can be sure as hell that conservatives aren't voting third party. Maybe they are, but not in any significant numbers, likewise can be said for the democratic party.
I simply do not see a situation where we come out of this without either trump, or biden in power. Unless i start hearing shit like, tomorrow, about this supposed third party. I simply don't think it's feasible for any other result. I can't imagine republicans are voting in any significant number against trump, most people who would are probably swing voters, so democrat this time around. Those who are voting for trump are going to be a significant portion of the base, probably at least 30% of the votes of that party. The democrats have the same issue. Most people are going to prefer voting for biden because incumbency and shit hasn't fucking exploded completely yet. I mean sure some people involved in the israel palestine stuff are probably voting third party, but i can't imagine they're a significant part of the populous. If they were we wouldn't be in this position that we are now.
At best, what voting for third party this time does is say "i didnt vote for joe biden, or trump" which like, you do you. But uh, good luck have fun with that one.
I'm gonna let you know right now that shaming people who don't vote for Biden is not a winning strategy and never will be.
Also saying Republicans are fascist and democrats aren't only appeals to liberals. Lefties fully believes both parties are fascist so that argument doesn't work either.
just for the record i'm not shaming people for how they vote, i'm shaming people for believing that there is some form of altruistic meaning in whoever you vote for. There isn't, there isn't a way to win, the entire point of voting is democratic compromise, you shouldn't feel like an in group, you shouldn't feel like an outgroup, you should feel like a contributor, because that's what you did. You contributed.
The rest is fair enough, but i wasn't going to interject a complete political paper into a comment about how voting is fucked up. Regardless, it serves it's purpose. Also i don't fully align with your interpretation of my statements, i bunched center leaning moderate types into the "swing voters" people who regularly change who they vote for because they generally don't care. This often leaves people who consistently vote for republican/democratic presidents. So most of who would be left is going to be maga/far right people, i.e. primarily trump voters. I don't want to say most left over democratic voters are going to vote biden, because i think there will be a significant upset, but i think it'll be most voters that end up voting for biden, like i said unless the third party gets like 30% percent votes or something, nothing unusual has happened.
Donald Trump thanks you from the cold depths of his orange heart.
You do you tho but don't be surprised when people shit on you for ensuring a Trump victory, when he makes good on his pledge to help Israel "finish them all"
Ah yes, it's my fault for not wanting to vote for Biden and not Bidens fault for committing a genocide and making his voter base absolutely fucking hate him.
Oh that's definitely his fault, but you are presented 2 bad options and have chosen the worst one out of principle.
Please be practical. I want the best for Palestine, and unfortunately the best US presidential candidate for them with a chance of winning is Biden. "best" meaning least worst...
Send a message all you'd like, but I'd rather minimize the inevitable damage than say "told you so" while standing and watching everything burn.
I'm not shaming you for not wanting to vote for him, I don't want to either, I'm trying to convince people that voting for him is in Palestine's best interest (better than Trump winning).
No. It's not our problem to fix. It's sometimes just a choice to walk away which everyone seems these days to push that you should just focus on yourself anyways.
If they don't want our input, or effort or thoughts but just want a vote and some money then fuck it. I'm not involved and I don't have the sway or money to even be a bother to them.
You have a completely different perspective than I. Yes, the Democratic party is being an ass to voters; yes, I hate them for what they're (not) doing; but I can slightly affect the odds to be slightly better for Palestine, so I will.
You can send a message that you're not a pawn, but they don't care, or at least in 4 years it won't matter anymore. If you want the best for Palestine, analyze your options for what's best, of which giving up and stepping back is not a very good one.
And this is why people don't like democrats, I'm not helping Trump by not voting for Biden. Maybe don't be a genocide maniac and people will vote for you.
Especially because the US doesn't even employ direct presidential elections, but uses the electoral college. A third party candidate simply will not win. Any obfuscation of a clear win will make it that much easier for the electors to disregard the people.
I'd like to remind you that Trump is still actively pretending the last time he didn't lose, and even when he was elected president, it was against the popular vote.
So yes, by not voting for Biden, you are helping Trump, like it or not. Which you clearly do, with the whole "this is why people don't like democrats". I'm not American, and you still result to trying to mock democrats, clearly implying you're a republican.
And thus you probably actually know you are helping Trump and you're fine with it, you're just ashamed of letting people know that's what you actually think.
The democratic strategy of shaming people for not voting for your candidate instead of shaming your candidate for committing a genocide is an odd strategy....
Keep it up, you're only making people not want to vote for Biden even more.
Do you understand that the US isn't a democracy? You can live in your fantasies, I can't help that — and again, I'm not American — but that won't change the political reality you live in.
You don't live in a democracy. Your vote can already be ignored. And you're ready to throw it away, instead of voting against Trump?
Voting for Biden doesn't mean you agree with him, ffs.
I have a horse in this race because the US is already infamous for it's crass foreign policy.
And you want to give Trump a better chance of winning?
Do you understand that the last time he "won", he didn't even have the popular vote?
And you're trying to make it easier for the US to become a vassal state to Russia? Trump is Putin's whore, and his only chance.
If Trump wins, it's an actual threat to democracy everywhere on this planet, however indirectly.
So I don't care if you have to vote for another shitty president who doesn't care about foreigners dying, it's nothing new to you. As long as it's not the illiterate orange clown who is in Putin's pocket. And you don't seem to have a lot of choice, realistically, do you?
If I were as generalising as you, I'd write "this is why people hate Americans" but I know not everyone from the US is like you.
So youre saying you're so easy to influence that a stranger online affects your voting decisions? Oh golly.
Why do you reply if you ignore everything I say?
When Trump was elected, he didn't actually have the majority vote.
And you think it's realistic for a third party candidate to win because of your vote, despite several presidents having lost the presidency despite winning the popular vote?
So, to reiterate, you're not getting the point that I'm not American, or... you're just not aware that your political labels don't apply world-wide?
Secondly, the active ignoring of "do you support Trump" and "do you support Putin" tell a tale of their own. Mainly that you probably don't want to say that you don't support either. Anyone supporting Putin and Trump are more likely Putin fans, who just understand that Trump winning is the only chance Putin has. Which is why they would like for people to not vote for Biden. Because that's how sad Putin's situation is. He's cowering in a bunker, like Hitler before he killed himself. Which is probably the best option Putin has when Biden wins.
Which is why you're so desperate for your one-note insult at Biden, because Russian information warfare is so shit you think that's enough. People aren't voting for Biden, but against Trump.
If you're actually American, them why won't you answer about me asking if you know America is not a democracy, and that by voting for a third party, you're definitely making the rise of fascism more likely?
