Nah you’re assuming a lot of garbage because you’re dumb. I’m stuck in a first past the post system given a choice between actual trash or a biohazardous fascist dumpster fire. If you don’t vote, you’re more likely giving power to the biohazardous dumpster again and we all saw how that worked out. You’re an idiot if you think not voting absolves you from the consequences of the next person in power.
Nah you're just a dumbass for thinking that voting for either of the genocidal fascists and endorsing the capitalist system keeping them in power "absolves" you of anything (whatever that means).
Political power in a capitalist state comes from organizing, not from writing the name of some maniac on a piece of paper
If the left dumped the DNC and made them unable to reliably win elections in 2000, we wouldn't be here right now. Arguing that we can never start the hard but necessary process of making the DNC go the way of the Whigs is like arguing that climate change is too hard to deal with. It's not going to actually ever get any easier and the longer we wait the harder it will be.
Voting blue no matter who is what got us here, with a DNC that runs bad candidates picked in woke filled rooms behind the scenes, and doesn't allow real primaries to pick the strongest candidate. A great example of this is Henry Cuellar, a pro-life conservative who Nancy Pelosi moved heaven and earth for in the primary, literally lying to the dems in that district, saying she knew the FBI had dropped the investigation. Now we'll just lose that seat because the DNC would rather it go red than be occupied by a progressive. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result. The DNC isn't in fighting shape and the longer they're propped up, the worse they'll do against the GOP every cycle, which only emboldens the GOP to do crazy shit because the opposition party isn't a threat to them no matter what they do.
The DNC isn't in fighting shape and the longer they're propped up, the worse they'll do against the GOP every cycle, which only emboldens the GOP to do crazy shit because the opposition party isn't a threat to them no matter what they do.
So again, it sounds like your concern is the GOP being emboldened to do crazier shit. So the solution is to hand them the presidency and the freedom to do all the crazy shit they want.
The DNC is only going to become more prone to losing the longer they're propped up by an electorate that doesn't force them to improve. Maybe you can drag Biden over the line this time (you can't imo, the GOP has a structural advantage vs polls and Biden is just dead in the water in polls) but that only rewards the complacency that has led to them being this bad at elections. The GOP stepped in Brexit-level shit when they got Roe v Wade overturned, the fact that the DNC is doing as poorly as it is proves out what polling has shown, the DNC brand itself is deeply toxic in many states. We'll just be here in 2028 with you saying "We need to hold our nose and just vote for Kamala, even though Biden just nuked Laos because Netanyahu asked him to." Had Trump won in 2020, he'd be about to be term limited out and the blowback from Dobbs, his inflationary monetary policy, and Gaza would have fallen in his lap, putting the GOP in a worse position this cycle than they currently are. But they aren't, because you voted blue no matter who. Now he's going to come back, bigger and angrier than ever, and we didn't even hold a primary to try to find someone who can beat him.
Had Trump won in 2020, he'd be about to be term limited out and the blowback from Dobbs, his inflationary monetary policy, and Gaza would have fallen in his lap, putting the GOP in a worse position this cycle than they currently are.
Cool fanfic.
Now he's going to come back, bigger and angrier than ever
Only if you guys get your way.
Kinda wild how the narrative you guys prop up has moved from "both sides are the same" to "actually if Trump had won in 2020 that would have been better"
Both sides aren't the same. The DNC is run by PR executives who don't care about winning or losing as long as they make a percentage on the ad spend for the election. The GOP, meanwhile, is run by corrupt politicians who need to win in order to quid for a later quo of a do nothing million dollar a year job for a megacorporation. Perhaps it would be most fruitful to reflect on how you try to "persuade" voters and examine if that contributes to the toxicity of the DNC brand and the likelihood of voters unhappy with their performance turning out.
You keep talking like the only options are to hand the election to Trump and have the fight under that political landscape, or vote against Trump then suddenly not have that fight at all.
That's simply not how it works.
You can muse about these things all day, but like I said, one of 2 outcomes is possible this November.
If you're going to have this fight, one of those outcomes will make it significantly harder to have.
If you're right and Trump is going to successfully end electoral politics, assuming you win 2024 by the skin of your teeth, you're just delaying fate until 2028, when Trump will run again and beat Kamala, who the DNC will ordain as the candidate despite her disastrous 2020 run (or it will be long enough since Hillary lost they'll force her on us again). Either way we lose and Trump wins eventually. If anything, a win in 2024 will leave the DNC with fewer state and legislative seats to prevent literal constitutional amendments (see the 1000+ state-level seats Obama lost during his term and the general trend of losing congressional seats during a presidential term). It's a sad reality, but it's the fruit of the actions of a political party that hasn't really been into winning at electoral politics since 1992. You're probably going to bring up that Biden lost fewer seats than expected in 2022, but that's not the own you think it is. The DNC could have readily kept the house in 2022, but decided to completely fuck the NY map so that the head of the DCCC could keep his seat (which he did not anyway) resulting in the loss of 5 seats that should have gone dem. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it actually care about being the firewall against the GOP's extremism it pretends to be.
I’m just commenting that I appreciate you being the one to actually discuss points in this thread. I agree with the other guy, but I’m praising efforts here.
These accelerationists in this thread are the dumbest people on the left who don’t care about the oppressed sympathetic to their views and are directly in harms’ way if things get worse, because they want to gamble on a violent revolution that will nebulously make things better w/o any plan.
And naturally, with non-peaceful protest being the only form of organization, since both potential administrations will treat that issue equally, the logical option is to hand it to the one who will also do plenty more terrible things on top of it.
The logical option is a vote of no confidence. But we don't have that in the US. We have Kings for 4 years so we have to respond to them the way people have historically.
Do something about it lmao. I want to hear about you on the news organizing your way to power before the election. Name drop Jaderick in your speeches, I would love to see it and you could prove me wrong.
In the mean time you’re just trash sitting there doing nothing lol.
Same here, sounds like a lot of these people are disenfranchised, or are paid to dissuade voters from one particular side, or they're useful idiots.
I live in a first past the post system, it's not going to change for the better from the top down, I petition for ranked choice voting on the local level, if I want to continue to be able to vote in the future (and not in a Russian sense of "being able to vote") I'm voting for Biden.
For sure, I know accelerationists are the dumbest people on the left who have never picked up a book in their life. I’m getting downvoted in series of 7 votes which seems like a strange number to AstroTurf lmao.
What is “it”? All the nebulous statements with no plan lmao. They haven’t broken people enough to revolt yet. I’d have expected Russians to revolt again considering the worse oligarchical state over there, but the oligarchs are still in power. The bullies still have the better organization skills.
I hope y’all are at least part of a union otherwise you’re just worthless words lmao.
Lmao calling me MAGA. Dude can’t even read a post history, I’m surprised you can format a post.
So what are you then, just nihilist internet trash? Explain how not voting is going to make Palestinian lives better. While you’re at it, explain how a Trump presidency would be better for fighting fascism. Explain how not participating in the system of power is somehow going to give you what you want, whatever that may be? You just want to watch the world burn? Start with your own house.
Ironically showing your own privilege. Those who are in imminent danger from things getting worse will vote against another Trump term, no matter who. Biden and the status quo fucking suck, but they can get so much worse.
Liberals can't see beyond the next election (myopic). They also can't see the results of 30 years of "voting blue no matter who," so they lack the ability to learn.
Meanwhile leftists have been saying since Marx that Capitalism is the problem, and voting for your favorite color of Capitalism isn't beneficial to anyone but the Capitalist system. So yes there are that many myopic people, like yourself, who will not only vote for blue capitalism over literally any other action, but they will also come to explicitly leftists spaces and browbeat others to do the same.
Whenever I see a person blaming Russian's and Bots for going against their narrative, I know I've found a liberal. When someone else entertaining the option and suggesting the people downvoting the liberal are in the wrong, well it looks like I found two liberals.
You can see the vote history? Last night I'm pretty sure I was at 20 and the first response was at 10... But maybe it was a different thread? Pretty sure it was this one..
Vocal participation in a genocidal system is endorsement of it. You can't tell people to vote for one of the parties of Capital one year and then suddenly tell people that actually it needs to be overthrown and think that's going to happen 5 years later.
At some point you have to commit to it being "broken" (actually working as intended of course) and organize based entirely on the fact that it is and can not be supported in any way whatsoever. We're long past that point with the "lesser evil" party currently committing genocide.
Successful revolutions in the past have used elections primarily as a way to show the size of the movement, never by endorsing a party of Capital.
Organize. Endorsing a genocidal party won't stop them from committing genocide.
Yup, this commerad (the one you're responding to) is 100% okay with fascism it seems.
Better to allow the group that locks up protestors, doesn't convict anti fascist murderers, kills minorities, and actively surpresses the ability to vote, than vote for "the lesser of 2 evils". I'm not saying they're Russian, or Republican, but they're saying the same things as those groups.
Currently the Biden administration is locking up protesters, not convicting FASCIST murderers, killing minorities, and suppressing the ability to vote, all right now. If you want to continue with the liberal policy of pretending everything's okay go ahead, but don't give us shit for trying to do something about it, sit down and shut up King.
Stop gaslighting people. They said it's time to march and protest and you still accuse them as if they're participating in the system. We want both of them out. This is how movements for change start.
Classic lib take - attack the voters, because the current admin’s terrible policies are clearly their fault.
Repugs and Dems aren’t the only candidates on the ballot, and thankfully I can vote for someone who has policy positions much more aligned with my interests. Perhaps you can too, think about it. Or vote for more genocide, it’s your choice.
