FrostKing ,

Our library in the last place we lived (Midwest of the US) let you take pans from their large collection of cake pans. It was actually really useful.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

Of course a Midwestern library has a cake-pan collection.

Tinks ,

Many of the libraries in my area have all kinds of rental things you can check out! Books, audiobooks, music, video games and movies of course. But they also have a whole tools and homegoods section. Need a weirdly shaped pan for a 1-time birthday cake? Check it out and return it when you're done. Need a drill to hang shelves in your new apartment? Same thing. It's pretty awesome. For me personally I love to bake, but I simply do not have room for every type of pan. I only make angelfood cake once a year or so, and those pans are huge. I just use the library one and then I don't have to store the thing all year!

If you haven't been to your local library in years, you should make a trip there. You might be surprised what they have these days!

model_tar_gz ,

There is a “tool library” sort of service (for profit) operating in my area. The prices are absurd—people are charging like $20/day for a tool that would cost $100 new, or half that used on craigslist. My projects often span multiple days, especially if there’s an unforeseen delay—which there always is because I’m a good engineer but a shitty carpenter.

I don’t use the service. I’m all for communal ownership but it still has to make sense.

supersquirrel ,

There is a “tool library” sort of service (for profit)

Wait I am confused

library

Alright got it.

(for profit)

What

Ok….Why is everybody using the world “library” like it is an even remotely compatible concept with a for profit rental business??!

Is this just capitalism trying to purposefully destroy any meaning behind the word “library”?.

If your service is to rent tools out to places you are a tool rental company not a “tool library”. You would be a tool library if you were a community governed non-profit that let people borrow tools for essentially no money.

sigh it makes me so cynical how clearly libraries would never have been allowed to exist in a time as nauseatingly conservative and capitalist as this if they weren’t already old and boring concepts, the media, corporations, centrist democrats and republicans would all lose their mind about libraries being too radical of a concept if a leftist proposed them as an idea now.

:(

model_tar_gz ,

It’s a for-profit service that people use to rent-out, and rent-in their tools. Not a true library so to speak but seeks to accomplish the same. Except that people charging $20/day to rent their battery-powered Ryobi drill is absurd.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

Note that the featured rate in the article is "Another rented a planer at £11 a day to fix two doors in her flat after being quoted £245 for a handyman to come in and do the three hour job".

model_tar_gz ,

It’s not a fair comparison then is it? $80/hr is an expensive but not outrageously so handyman, plus they have their own tools to purchase and maintain and other business operating overhead (fuel and transportation maintenance) etc.

DIY—if you’re able—is always less expensive.

supersquirrel ,

quoted £245 for a handyman to come in and do the three hour job

Power tools, hand tools, clothes, batteries, heavy painters cothes, gloves etc.. do not make the job.

The skill of the handyman who can quickly and efficiently deduce an effective solution (described vaguely by a couple of photos and a description over the phone by someone who doesn't know shit about the problem they need solved) to a carpentry/handyman repair and do it within 3 hours is what makes the job.

People often make the point about learning home repair as a way to save money, and true it definitely is a necessary skill to some degree as a home owner unless you have a lotttt of money... but learning to do your own home repair really isn't "saving money" so much as simultaneously devaluing your free time AND labor time to the point that all of the incurred debt is inscribed into your body and lost time with your family or friends rather than in invoices for repairman. This leaves me hesitant to call doing a significant portion of home renovation yourself ON TOP of holding down a full time job "saving" anything even if it helps keeps monetary expenses down.

supersquirrel ,

It’s a for-profit service that people use to rent-out, and rent-in their tools

So yes this is the same old shit as labeling Uber or Lyft a “ridesharing app” instead of calling it what it is, a taxi service.

The correct name for this type of entity would be a consignment & rental store.

This kind of thing has NOTHING to do with libraries whatsoever in structure but more importantly in intended function and community impact.

model_tar_gz ,

Agreed.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

Hopefully you have an actually competent and accurately-priced makerspace near.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Rent-to-Own has always been a scam predicated on people too poor to enjoy a stable life.

john89 ,

What the fuck is this rent-a-center propaganda?

How stupid are we?

alekwithak ,

Pretty dumb. I thought this would be about lending libraries -_-

andrewth09 ,

Tf are both you talking about. The article talks about Tool Libraries and The Library of Thing at length. It name drops a few subscription services for reused baby clothes and kids toys but those are still temporary items people need.

Rent-a-centers core business model consists of predatory loans for household appliances that you need continuously. This article talks about rentals for things you only need for a short period of time.

alekwithak ,

Subscriptions are just as predatory. I won't applaud them.

sgtgig ,

There is a tool library near me and it is $45/yr. It's amazing. These are really good services and this comment section has no idea what it's talking about.

john89 ,

Hmm. It sounds to me you just don't want to acknowledge when you're being taken for a ride.

But hey, to each their own.

Businesses want a lifeline to our wallets, which is why subscriptions and renting are pushed on useful idiots.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

I feel like digital software subscriptions have stigmatized subscriptions in general. Subscriptions are great for things that require constant investment to be meaningful. One subscribes to news and receive constant reporting on the latest news; one subscribes to a tool library and get access to nearly every tool one can need. Plus a large part of the article is about non-profit libraries anyway.

john89 , (edited )

The problem is that you're renting access to something you're not actually consuming.

Once you stop paying, you lose access and have nothing to show for it. They still have your money, though.

This is different than, say, paying for electricity which is consumed and no longer available for either party after consumption.

Sorry bud, you're defending being scammed.

Plus a large part of the article is about non-profit libraries anyway.

Nice talking point just to cover your bum from shilling.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

The problem is that you're renting access to something you're not actually consuming.

But you are effectively consuming them. Just like renting books and movies, you nearly always don't need it again after you return it.

Nice talking point just to cover your bum from shilling.

Nice talking point just to cover your bum from shilling.

john89 ,

But you are effectively consuming them. Just like renting books and movies

No, you're not. Consuming something means it is no longer available after consumption. We can't "consume" media unless we destroy it afterwards.

Sorry, you've been played by industry talking points just to get you to spend as much money as possible. Now you're doing your part in perpetuating them.

There's a term for people like you, but I'll refrain from using it here.

Goodbye. You may have the last word since you need to push your products on others.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

Ah yes, buying everything you don't need too long isn't consumerism but renting and reusing is

turmacar ,

This isn't new, everything has it's place.

We rented a trench digger for the day from Home Depot in the 90s instead of buying one for thousands of dollars. That trench didn't magically go away when we returned the tool. That we didn't have access to the tool anymore was the plan.

Renting a U-haul for a move is incredibly more efficient than daily driving a giant box truck. Somehow, the things stay moved once the truck is returned.

john89 ,

You didn't subscribe to those things.

turmacar ,

So you just didn't read the article?

One person hired a metal detector to hunt down the wedding ring they lost when camping in Sussex and found it within 20 minutes. Another rented a planer at £11 a day to fix two doors in her flat

A handheld pressure washer is £12 a day, while garden shears are £3.50

Renting is the "subscription" you're complaining about. You're right that rent-to-own is a scam at best, but unlike most digital subscriptions you're using the thing to do something. Like with all rentals there's a break even line where you would've been better buying the thing if you use it often/long enough. But the service existing is not itself a bad thing.

sgtgig ,

Oh my god dude renting has been a thing for millenia.

andrewth09 ,

"We can share books if you pay me to maintain the book sharing system via a non optional tax." Universally loved system.

"We can share tools if you pay me to maintain those tools via a non optional tax." A niche program most libraries have.

"We can share tools if you pay me to maintain those tools via an subscription where I have a profit incentive." Literally 1984 and late stage capitalism.

john89 ,

Yep.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

They can be, sure, but they can also be a really good deal. If I know I'll need a certain amount of something on a fixed schedule, I can subscribe to it and save money. This helps reduce costs for suppliers because they have a better idea of how much stock they need on hand, so they'll want to encourage you to subscribe with discounts.

Subscriptions are bad when there's some form of lock-in, such as a fee for breaking the subscription, or if the cost is arbitrarily high without the subscription because of a lack of competition. I dislike digital subscriptions in general because of this, since you'll lose access to all of the content you've enjoyed to that point.

But subscriptions to consumables are fine by me.

riodoro1 ,

Stupid enough to wake up in this world. It didn’t happen in one day.

hahattpro ,

Everything as subscription.

Yeah it is seem to be cheap now, until you become dependent on it.

On the flip side, when you lost your job, cancel your home subscription and become homeless.

Cethin ,

Oh, I assumed this article was going to be about public libraries. Often public libraries will have things for checkout, like gardening or cooking equipment. Yeah, this is somewhat distopian. These companies will probably make bank off of this. It should be public. We need a larger library system for much more things.

AutistoMephisto ,
@AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world avatar

We need a larger library system for much more things.

Private Equity goes REEEEEE!

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/910eba08-12db-4835-8697-27f56e5b1027.png

thisorthatorwhatever ,

I remember when corner stores rented DVDs, this could be another business for them. But...since they haven't adopted it I guess it really isn't that profitable. Power tool prices have come down in price and size.

treadful ,
@treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

Not sure I agree that it's dystopian. Imagine how much less waste there would be. People with less crowded storage/garages/houses with less junk they use rarely. Like, I have this scroll saw I've used for like one project. Why the fuck do I own this thing?

Reduce. Reuse. Recycle.

Cethin ,

I guess so, but I just see this going in the direction of not wining anything and needing a subscription service. They end up costing a lot more and nearly killing off alternatives.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

What could go wrong with depending on such a service? The things up for rental here are only things that have to be frequently changed or used just once or twice. I don't expect to subscribe to more permanent things as part of the expansion of tool rentals. Yes, some like Adobe have already adopted subscription for permanenty things, but that's different from this topic.

FunnyUsername ,
@FunnyUsername@lemmy.world avatar

Ubik was right

bighatchester ,

https://youtu.be/gMt-Opo1Ovw?si=kUUwG4InmnP0UkL4

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UckyBon ,

When I was a kid in the late 80s/early 90s, we had a toy-library across from our house. You could rent all kinds of toys for a week, extend if needed, and return it when the kids got bored with it. Good times.

They also had LEGO, and every piece had to be accounted for on return.

They went out of business when people started buying their own GameBoys and PlayStations.

CrowAirbrush ,

We had a rental thing for toys in our old neighbourhood, but you paid for it with currency made from helping at the nearby petting zoo.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

My public library had toys for rent when I was a kid. You could check out Teddy Ruskpin and Power Wheels and full sets of sports equipment to use in the park next door. Then the neighborhood got hit by the late 80s financial crisis and the program was cut. And then they spent an enormous amount of money on a computer lab. And then an Adult Learning Center. And then they decided too many poor people were near the library, making it unsafe, so people stopped bringing their kids there. And then it got defunded. And now its abandoned.

Libraries used to have all sorts of cool high end shit in them. Now they're so heavily deferred on maintenance that people don't feel safe working inside.

Real shit.

arefx ,

The USA has been going backwards for some time now. I'm not even some Chinese simp or very political (I made an account on .ml before I even knew what I was doing) but it's impressive how far they have advanced over the last 20-30 years and how the USA has just stagnated or regressed.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not even some Chinese simp or very political (I made an account on .ml before I even knew what I was doing) but it’s impressive how far they have advanced over the last 20-30 years and how the USA has just stagnated or regressed.

The Chinese had a ton of catching up to do after WW2. So the first major industrializations in nearly a century are going to hit different than what Americans were trying to do at the bleeding economic edge.

But the mismanagement of the American economy has been glaring. Trillions into a series of disastrous wars. A desperate clutching to legacy ICE, long past its expiration date. De-investment in education, in health care, and in mass transit infrastructure. Financialization run amuck, to the point that fictitious speculative assets are outpacing the value of real capital and estates. Stagnant wages. Declining living standards. Police violence from coast to coast that seems to worsen with each new administration.

Now that the US and China are roughly on par technologically, there's no strong reason for China to continue to outpace the US. Certainly, they've come down quite a bit from the heyday of double-digit annual growth figures. And we've got ample opportunity for domestic investment in a country that's needed an infrastructure overhaul since the turn of the 21st century.

But nationalism is like rooting for your local baseball team. It doesn't matter how bad the Yankees are doing this season. You wave that fucking pennant or you get your ass back to Boston.

BlueMagma ,

We had the same, and it rented video game console and games, it was great.

trusty ,

The one in Chicago is great. They also had a huge collection of free seeds this spring.

shortdorkyasian ,

Once I started using the tool lending libraries in the San Francisco East Bay, it was a game changer for simple maintenance.

Some bike shops also have public work benches with tools. https://www.boxdogbikes.com/about-1

Shadowq8 ,

ok this is an amazing idea

Emmie , (edited )

It’s nice however let’s assume that it is the main consumer model. Then everything becomes possibly 20 times more expensive as companies need to keep same profit (shareholders) and now 20 people pool money to share the thing. It’s not a solution to capitalism, however it would work wonders for environment.

Yet it is us doing all the work for the environment while companies don’t lift a finger and get all the profit. Not a viable long term solution to a fundamental problem of wealth.

Squizzy ,

The companies who have 20x the mark up necessary to survive will quickly see new businesses occupy the space to undercut them.

exanime ,

Hmmm I wouldn't be so sure... It depends on their position in the market and how well they lobby the government

Squizzy ,

Not really, not every business is in bed with the politicians. This was a worse case scenario where rentals became the main method of purchasing, so everyone would be on level ground. Those making 20 times profit margins are not everyday businesses, they ae luxury brands who would still thrive on their branding alone.

exanime ,

Which business isn't? I honestly want to know to restore a semblance of hope in humanity

AFAIK, a business that is not in bed with corrupt politicians is because they have ready been beaten or they can't afford it

Fried_out_Kombi ,
@Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, this is the one piece a lot of people miss: in any decently competitive market, individual firms have effectively zero power to set prices; they must instead accept the prices determined by the market.

Knowing that, the solution to that sort of corporate BS, then, is to ensure markets are competitive by busting monopolies, lowering barriers to entry, and getting money out of politics to reduce the effect of lobbying.

frezik ,

It's not a solution by itself, but a library economy can form part of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOYa3YzVtyk

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GissaMittJobb ,

Growing up, there was an association in my area for common ownership of different types of machinery and other equipment for its members. You paid something like $10 a year, and for that you got to borrow all kinds of things you might need as a home owner, like a wood chopper/splitter, high pressure washer, trailers, leaf blowers, cement mixer, scaffolding etc.

I always thought that was brilliant.

fruitycoder ,

Wait is this trying to suggest just renting is the same thing as a library?

The benifit of a library is you share the cost as a group and get some fractional use of it. Like books that you only really need access to for small amount of time.

Its not the same as say Amazon owning the book rental space and choosing, without any choice on your point, on what books are there or who could get access to them.

realbadat ,

Tool libraries are libraries, not rentals.

So no, they aren't saying renting is the same thing as a library. They are saying libraries offering more services are a great way for you to save money by not buying a tool you only need once or for a day here and there over the years.

fruitycoder ,

I agree with the first part, but they are using the terms interchangeable of renting and borrowing. Talking about renting and subscription in the same vain as borrowing.

I just don't want the very cool idea of a library economy to be conflated with the "you own nothing" subscription/rent everything economy.

They both have similarities but the actual ownership matters IMHO or else you get rent seeking/enshittification.

realbadat ,

That's fair, I'd agree the article does a terrible job of differentiating, and a company calling itself a library in it's name doesn't make it a library, just a rental service playing pretend for profit.

Bartsbigbugbag ,

Obligatory Library Socialism Link: https://librarysocialism.org/

In the simplest terms, the right of usufruct means you can use things, but you cannot deny them to others when you're not using them, and you do not have the right to destroy them to prevent others from using them. So, for example, the farmer is welcome to grow crops on a given plot of land - but if they choose not to, somebody else can use the land.

Given this, it's easy to see that this principle already exists in public libraries. You can borrow a book to help you start a business, but you can't prevent others from reading it after you - or threaten to destroy the book unless you receive the profits of the next reader's business. You can hold the book exclusively (of other library patrons), but only temporarily.

KillingTimeItself ,

i thought this was called having neighbors? Nonetheless, i'm not complaining. Less waste is better waste.

werefreeatlast ,

I should start my own rental thing. I tend to buy what I need for DIY projects and I'm on the build up of tools phase. I can pretty much build my own house if I wanted, or fix anything in my car. So I got a number of toys just catching dust most of the time. But toys are fun.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

"Honey there's no way I'm letting you pay $200 for that bookshelf I could build myself, once I buy $150 in materials and $700 in tools"

Duamerthrax ,

People who own tools tend to build more then one thing.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

That's true, but there's plenty of people like myself who buy heaps of tools with the intention of building all the things but just never get around to it.

Fedizen ,

Not sure if dystopia

Buddahriffic ,

It's dystopic if most can only afford to rent what they always need. IMO being able to rent something you rarely need is a good thing.

I'd much rather have my car for day to day driving and rent something with more space the few times I need to move something that won't fit in my car. Even better would be to have ride share programs to use for medium loads and reliable mass transit for trips where I don't have much to move.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

Even better would be that Arcimoto MUV thing. Sadly it appears they went bankrupt

brbposting ,

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/452ace5a-2ff2-4973-ad0b-025e90d1037e.jpeg

Cool

aniki ,

These things always fail because ultimately it's just a motorcycle with extra garbage.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

And how is that a bad thing?

aniki ,

No one wants it. The people that are comfortable in a car don't want to be outside and will replace their current car with another car. The people with a motorcycle don't want it because they already have a bike. The cyclists would rather just have a cargo bike. Ultimately, there's no market for these things, so they always, always fail.

Ultimately, people would rather buy a Caterham than one of those stupid things for about the same price.

https://caterhamcars.com/en/find-buy?model=Any

Aatube OP , (edited )
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

There is a roof. People aren't getting exposed. There are also optional door coverings I've seen.
The rest of your argument sounds like it works against any new vehicle purchase, not to mention the added comfort this has over many bikes.
At around $19000, the FUV is cheaper than any of these silly, roofless and less capacious Caterhams you've linked. Not to mention gas prices.

aniki ,

LOL mate you don't have to convince me. Your argument is irrelevant [just look at sales.] and I don't give a shit.

lolcatnip ,

Looks a lot like a BMW prototype I saw almost 20 years ago. I kept hoping they'd bring it to market, but I guess it's safe to give up on it by now!

Aatube OP , (edited )
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

They brought it to market for six glorious years but couldn't achieve mass-production and spent way too much on a ton of SKUs most people don't want before they basically went bankrupt.

KillingTimeItself ,

it's not dystopic in the sense that companies are selling tools to people who don't need tools for an extremely prolonged time.

That would be fucking dystopic, being forced to buy tools you don't need, because it's the only option to get them.

Aceticon ,

Quite the contrary: it reduces wasteful consumption and reducing consumption is a requirement for Ecological recovery.

I would say that buying for very infrequent use or for a temporary need something which can be used with no problems for much more than that, is wasteful consumption at a systemic level - there should be alternatives.

Sure, owning your own personal high powered professional drill satisfies the greedy animal inside, but it's not exactly wise of justified for most of us even just at a personal level. Ditto for quite a lot of other things.

The drive to own lots of shit isn't healthy, both in a personal sense and in a systemic sense (including but not limited to Ecological), though it sure makes a ton of money for those who own most Productive Assets and all the ones is supporting areas such as Money Lenders, that most humans act as Consumers only limited by the maximum indebtness they can get into with their income.

Even if people can afford to own tons of things they barelly use, it would actually be better for everybody if that wasn't common.

The only dystopia element of this is that in Late Stage Neoliberal Capitalism people are being pushed to rent because of the miniscule and worsening share of the wealth produced that workers get - or in other words, shit salaries whilst investment income has never been this good - as they can't afford to own anymore, rather than because of a shift in the way people thing and them actually wanting to rent rather than own.

captainlezbian ,

It’s the cracks in dystopia. Good things that would be awesome without dystopia but wouldn’t start without dystopia. Public libraries are a relic of the gilded age dystopia for example

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