To be clear, according to the article, Sanders is not saying the protests may be biden's Vietnam, Sanders is saying that other people are saying these protests might be biden's Vietnam, which is absurdly hyperbolic and incorrect.
Bernie is a hundred percent the best and no this is not like Vietnam and it won't have the same generational impact.
These protests are important, but write about them accurately. Lazy reporting and inaccuracies don't help anybody.
It's an apt comparison. A good majority of young people want the destruction of Gaza to stop but the president won't have it. If young people don't go to vote for Biden in November, this will be the reason. This effect becomes stronger and stronger the longer this goes on. It absolutely can define the generation that is now growing up into politics
No, this is the same as the all those hack writers saying that the Oct. 7th attack on Israel is the same as 9/11.
It's a lazy comparison that is obviously incorrect with any amount of scrutiny or historical context.
Yes, there is a single near-parallel in that "a military conflict is happening", but that is where the similarities end.
If the argument is that any country ever in a war is like any other country ever connected to a war, it doesn't seem like a very worthwhile thing to post.
Dissimilarities:
There is no direct American involvement in the war, only the perpetuation of military aid to a 75-year-old Ally.
Almost zero Americans are dying, while nearly 300000 US soldiers lost their lives in Vietnam.
The US got its ass kicked in Vietnam, whereas obviously Palestine has no comparable military retaliatory ability against Israel.
Again, the US is not directly involved in this war. This is not going to generationally affect the US in the way that a generation of wounded and a traumatized US soldiers actually did affect US society following Vietnam. Up until a few months ago, US awareness of this 75-year-old conflict was basically nil outside of sitcom references.
American tiktokers are trying to make this about themselves and so they're comparing it to one of yhe only wars they have heard of, the Vietnam War, which is absurd and misguing it.
This probably should have been number one, but the Vietnam War occurred directly because of a lie lie told by the military to Congress to trick the US government into going to war. The current war is occurring because Palestine attacked Israel with an act of terrorism for the nth number of times Palestine and Israel have attacked each other with acts of terrorism.
The 75 year Palestinian genocide by Israel is not at all like the US invasion of Vietnam, and it's insulting to Vietnam, the veterans then and the Palestinians now to pretend this issue is all about the US.
This "war", or concluding genocidal chapter, will be culturally relevant in Palestine and Israel. It will generationally define Palestine and Israel.
I hope it influences US foreign policy, but it isn't anything like Vietnam and to suggest so is incorrect and insulting.
What the hell are you talking about? The comparison is between the US college protest being like the Vietnam protest, not between the conflicts in Vietnam and Gaza which are nothing alike. This is a politically coming of age of a new generation of protesters, and the political establishment dug themselves into a position that these protesters will never accept. This may be Biden's downfall because there's no chance he'll give up his full support of Israel and the occupation.
Your response is what I mean when I complain about laziness.
It's good that kids are protesting.
This extra-national conflict , that the US is not directly involved in, and Biden clearly does not fully support, is not a generationally defining events directly comparable to Vietnam.
As for your "political coming of age", it's very nice that some students are righteously upset about this war that's been going on for almost a century,, but the possibility that they are growing up is not generationally defining, it is possibly personally defining for some of them.
Which is still important, and less hyperbolic and incorrect.
Also, "biden's downfall"? Absurd.
Let's look at how dumb that assertion is.
If the ~13 million college student voters ignore the Biden investments in infrastructure, sustainable energy, lgbtq rights, labor rights, environmental investment, student loan debts cancellation, covid relief, domestic policy, foreign policy, international relations, and importantly, his diplomatic efforts to draw down the current israeli-palestine conflict, and they decide to focus on part of a single issue, and illogically personally blame Biden for continuing an active military alliance that has existed since before biden was potty trained, vote for somebody else and that 8% of voters somehow leads to biden's loss and then a candidate they don't want wins, then that outcome and its consequences will be entirely their own short-sighted fault.
You're advocating ignoring the achievements of an administration to bolster narrow self-righteousness.
Personally satisfying in the same way a toddler holding their breath is, but more societally harmful and self-destructive.
Whatever you say. You sound like a Hillary supporter with that "smart voters would never do that" energy. I'm out. You can have the last word. Or lots of words
It absolutely can define the generation that is now growing up into politics
If Biden doesn't win, there won't be politics to grow up into. You go the way Dear Leader Trump (assuming you even have the option because you are white) or you go to prison to be slave. This is not an exaggeration.
Like, if you are coming here to make that argument, hasn't gotten through your skull that your capitulation and acceptance of genocide isnt other peoples decision? You supporting Biden in-spite of him being a piece of shit isn't an argument for Biden. Biden simply needs to do better and you should be putting pressure on him to do so instead of apologizing.
Trump is worse and Biden is a piece of shit. Both the candidates are genocidal assholes - in this election if we don't vote for less genocide we'll seriously erode our ability to vote again in the future.
Biden isn't a vote for less genocide and its costing him the election. Your apologism doesn't change that. He actually has to be a vote for less genocide for that strategy to be effective and that's the point: he isn't.
My second point and why I put out that bait, is that you pretending he's a better option isn't helping Biden's chances, its making them worse. Denying the facts on the ground is why Democratic candidates lose elections. Its the constant gaslighting people have come to expect from establishment politics and it is turning voters away. Stop trying to lose this election for us.
Biden shown himself to be a vote for "as much genocide as the other guy, maybe more". Its his job to fix that policy position and he can't win without doing so. You apologizing for his shitty policy isn't furthering his chances, its diminishing them.
Trump has advocated for Isreal accelerating its genocidal war - so he's definitely worse. Biden also may cave to pressure as his base strongly objects to supporting Isreal while with Trump there's no chance he'll back down from genocide... you may think it's not worth holding your breath for Biden suddenly revising his position and that's fair - but these two are clearly not equally shitty.
Yeah idk. Trump did those things, but he's also called on Israel for restraint. Honestly, he might even pull support because Bibi slighted him at one point in the past and he took that personally.
Trump is a D20. You really don't know what you are going to get. Biden is 4 D6's. Like regardless of how your roll, you know his support is going to be pretty unwavering. He's the most pro-Israeli politician, basically ever. More so than Trump.
This is my point regarding the apologetics. Most people are projecting a kindness or a softening of Bidens policies that simply aren't' there. Biden' isn't the candidate they pretend him to be. And its costing Biden the election, so the apologetics are working against Biden.
There are thresholds that if Bidens support drops below, he steps out of the race. Shoring up a candidate who has no path to 270 is bad strategy, and right now, Biden has no path to 270. Its also becoming increasingly clear that he's not going to shift on policy. He'll do some rhetoric, but he's not going to change policy. He needs to 180 on Gaza to get Michigan and Wisconsin and these are "must wins" without which he CAN NOT win the white house. Like its actually not possible.
So the question isn't really about Trump at all at this point. Its about Biden. If Biden isn't a viable candidate with this policy suite, then we need a different candidate. This entire thing is shaping up identically to 2016 where the idiots just keep jabbering on about Hillary being the best option when she actually wasn't, instead of being willing to move their support to a more viable candidate. The people insisting that you had to support Hillary were the ones that cost us that election.
So the question isn't really about Trump at all at this point. Its about Biden. If Biden isn't a viable candidate with this policy suite, then we need a different candidate.
I hate to be the bearer of shitty news but America's election system is fundamentally broken. Personally, I'm living in Canada now and the parliamentary westminster system is worlds better than directly electing an executive... but in America the electoral system is what it is and we will be electing a new president in November.
If Biden and Trump still draw breath come the election introducing more candidates (even the DNC officially backing someone else) would just result in a split vote and losing the election so these two chucklefucks are our options - I'd love to vote for AoC or Bernie or hundreds of other people but they aren't realistically participating in this election (and you can ask Bernie if you should vote for him as a write in if you want - he'll explain pretty fucking clearly that you shouldn't).
So, it'll be Biden vs. Trump and, if we look at what Trump did last term he may have been unpredictable but he was consistently awful - so it's like rolling a d20 and hoping to get over a 35... how awful he'll be in any particular circumstance is unpredictable, but he'll definitely be awful.
I also disagree strongly with your assessment on how pro-Isreal Trump is - he did a previously unthinkable action in moving our embassy to Jerusalem clearly signaling opposition to a two state solution and, again, he's shouting with a megaphone right now about how much he wants Palestinians to stop existing. I think you should really look closer at Trump's statements over the past six months - he's demurred when it's been politically advantageous to oppose democrats but he absolutely doesn't give a shit about Palestinians.
Oh yea…..well, that’s like, your opinion, mannnnn.
I like the way you are articulating this. Thanks. I think I agree…. Whole heartedly
I keep seeing all these blue no matter who folks who can’t accept that anyone would ever critique Biden. I don’t think it is helping Biden to live in such denial and straight up lie to people, and when that doesn’t work yell at them that Trump is worse.
It’s actually kind of pathetic and it makes me realize that I don’t have much hope for a Biden win right now. I want Biden to win, but I can’t see myself voting for him. Thankfully I’m in Blue Colorado…. So I can vote for someone like cenk uiger (spelling) or Cornell west without worrying about our electoral votes going to Trump….. but yea the swing states are super important
And even outside of the swing states Biden needs to win by more than half because of the way the electoral college works, tending to favoring republican candidates by 5-10 % I believe….
It preach on brother, very nice to hear articulate and consistent points of view and especially from your point of view
What is astounding to me are the people that act like Biden is physically incapable of changing his position on Israel? The stakes are really high in this election, which is why it is irresponsible for Biden to be supporting Israel right now.
I couldn't fucking tell you. Democrats are famous for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and his obstinance on Isreal is extremely frustrating. It'd be really fucking nice if he decided to stop being such an idiot - especially as someone renowned for their history of politically savvy moves.
This isn't about that. And no, Biden shouldn't think he is safe just because the other guy is shrouded in shit. We can still go after him for his unwavering support for the Israel genocide even if he wins the election. The point is, we should not be doing this. It is obvious what the shipments are being used for and its a war crime. There for, any deals we had are nullified and void. They should not be getting these weapons or any support from the US. The point is it isn't hard to be "the good guy" so long as you aren't staring down the bags of holding that are the pockets of PACs. The point is, the corruption everywhere is plane and open for everyone to see. What are we going to do about it? Elect a more corrupt leader? No! We need to tear down lobbying and money being speech. We need to get angry and gather at their properties. We need to show them we know, and that after we're done dunking on fucken Trump we're coming for them.
We probably need to keep iron dome working for Israel. I have a feeling they are going to need it if they keep pushing for the US to go to war with Iran
That sounds like a great argument for taking away the iron dome, then Israel would no longer feel protected enough to keep up with their reckless provocations against Iran.
Yes I agree, if we allow Israel to start a war with Iran the death toll would be in the millions, and as always the majority of victims will be civilians.
Unfortunately, Project 2025 being a thing means Biden needs to win. Trump winning means no second chances as the GoP WILL instate a dictatorship that wears democracy's pelt as a disguise
Honestly, best case scenario would be Biden dying like the day after being sworn in again. Because he is awful. But Trump is way worse
Project 2025 means that Trump needs to lose, actually.
Its not necessarily Biden needing to win. Harris would be doing better than Biden right now. Clinton (puke in my mouth) would be doing better than Biden right now.
I don't think Harris would be any better. And unless Bernie is made president pro tempore I don't see anyone in the entire line of succession that would be any better on this issue. Hell, I supported and voted for Fetterman and he's out here calling me a piece of shit for having a problem with genocide.
Sorry about that... Fetterman was astoundingly untruthful in the election - some of my family is in Philly and they were quite enthusiastic about his messaging. I do hope he's only a one term congressman.
If you’re not voting because of this, then yes- we’re going to make that argument.
Because as much as you hate it, I hate it and everyone fucking hates it-
Genocide-Lite is FAR better than full blown Ultra-Mega Gyro Super Genocide 3000 v2.0.
So right now we bite the bullet and vote the lesser of two evils with the hope that maybe this will be enough to make people actually DO something in between election years instead of manufacturing reasons to not do anything during them.
Obligatory “Not voting is a vote for Trump.” And I’m not going to explain it or argue with you about it.
My USian privilege has allowed me to throw out all of the weevils thus far. Unfortunately we are in a position forcing us to need to eat the lesser weevils and it’s turning a bunch of stomachs.
Why do people think this is a good idea? Gaza isn't large. It can be leveled with traditional artillery fire (and it has domestic manufacturing of artillery shells). Force Israel to abandon precision munitions and Rafa will look like Bahkmut.
