If somebody spends the whole day watching fox or religious propaganda, gets worked up and all he can think of is owning a liberal or converting an unbeliever, is this person a victim or just gullible?

Let me explain the question:

If fox news and religious propaganda are exactly that, propaganda, then they are victims.

If, however, every person is free to listen to what they want and then rant against liberals, migrants, Muslims, Arabs, trans, gays, atheists, you name it, then they are just gullible.

I’d have more patience for a victim than a gullible person.

Everybody is free to believe what they want to believe. What I don’t get is why they have to stir things up and why they believe they are the only ones getting it and everyone else is dumb, woke, a communist or is going to hell. Why can’t they keep their opinions to themselves?

Mastengwe ,

They’re absolutely NOT a victim. A victim is an unwilling participant in an act committed against them.

Stupidity isn’t not a viable excuse to be a victim.

oxlikesmath ,

It absolutely is. Consider elderly people getting scammed. You really want to defend the fact that they aren't victims?

Delusional ,

They're a gullible victim.

whaleross ,
@whaleross@lemmy.world avatar

I think the "people are free to believe what they want to believe" is a mistake. This is the very statement that relativitises opinions and belief systems with facts and creates the illusion that they are all equal.

Look at the "facts don't care about feelings" crowd that believe wholeheartedly that statements pandering to their feelings are facts and disregard any actual facts as fake news. I don't think it's because they decided one day to pick and choose what is a fact and what is not, but they actually can't tell that there is a difference in opinions, beliefs and facts in the first place.

People need to accept that sometimes the truth is painful, that it contradicts what you want it to be, and worst of all - that you may have been wrong.

Edit: that said, I think people are free to believe whatever they want to believe when it comes to unprovable existential esoterica like personal values, afterlife, religion, whatever. As long they accept it is a personal belief and not an universal truth.

therealjcdenton ,
@therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip avatar

They are falling for engagement strategies all news media outlets use. They will say things that pander to a specific group pointing the finger at the other side so you'll stuck with their station. Both liberal and conservative sites do this. Journalism is dead

jj4211 ,

Don't know that I'd characterize it as being "victims", their media outlets have chosen to fuel anxiety and anger that was already there.

The media is culpable for pouring fuel on the fire, but the fire was already there. They are emboldened to be loud since they find such loud agreement from media and online, but they already were thinking the same basic things.

Tehhund ,

Blame is not a finite resource. Just because 2 people are involved doesn't mean they're both 50% to blame — they can both be 100% at fault.

So to answer your question, the person is responsible for their onerous views. They chose to watch that trash and believe it. We can have compassion for them without absolving them of blame. At the same time, they are a victim of the people lying to them. So it's fine to blame the person consuming the bullshit and the person producing the bullshit, and the fact that there are 2 people to blame doesn't make either of them any less to blame.

Dkarma ,

People affected by confirmation bias are NEVER VICTIMS.

theywilleatthestars ,

Think that anyone who would find that stuff compelling is not in a good place emotionally or mentally. Now, ideally they should be pulled out of that, and you do occasionally hear stories about people leaving extremist groups like Qanon because they found a healthy hobby or community. On the other hand, I don't think humans can really be separated cleanly between victim and victimizer, and the people this questions describing often become a danger to other people.

edgemaster72 ,
@edgemaster72@lemmy.world avatar

They aren't victims, but they wish they were. They're awful people who want to be openly awful to others to feel better about themselves, and fox "news" lets them indulge their awful impulses and emboldens them to be the awful people they want to be. Then when they get confronted for being awful, they play the victim instead of learning to live and let live.

Obviously this isn't true of all fox viewers or religious people, but I have been thinking about this lately as our new dynamic. It's not supposedly about the best way to help people anymore (and what we can/can't or should/shouldn't do), it's now one side that still supposedly wants to help people and one that has given up the pretense entirely and only stands for cruelty.

Scrof ,

Stupidity is a moral flaw, not an intellectual one.

Adderbox76 ,

"willing victimhood" is certainly a thing.

ShepherdPie ,

I'd put them on the same level of victimhood as followers of people like Charles Manson. They probably wouldn't have done what they did without his influence but they're still culpable for the damage they've caused.

Jafoo ,

"If somebody spends the whole day watching fox or religious propaganda, gets worked up and all he can think of is owning a liberal or converting an unbeliever, is this person a victim or just gullible?"

Neither. Such folks (Along with their "enemies" on the opposite end of the sociocultural continuum, who get all of their intell from The Daily Show and Vox)are case studies in the willfull devolution of modern humans. The sooner all of them guzzle down a gallon of Draino each, the saner this planet will be

macrocarpa ,

Tldr "In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence"

thisbenzingring ,

discussions like this always bring me back to the Dead Kennedy's song Stars and Stripes of Corruption

Not only is the music one of their greatest, but the lyrics are Jello Biafra's best. If you have never heard it, imagine surf guitar, fast pace and a poet that can unleash lyrics at bullet speeds while staying in tone and driving the beat. The end of their career finale and IMO their magnum opus. The lyrics are just so good. Here is one part that I really think about alot...

But what can just one of us do

Against all that money and power trying to crush us into roaches?

We won't destroy society in a day

Until we change ourselves first from the inside out

We can start by not lying so much and treating other people like dirt

It's so easy not to base our lives on how much we can scam

And you know it feels good to lift that monkey off our back

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

Too great a tune not to include a link for the uninitiated!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=983DwAOCXRI

The end of their career finale

Apart from Bedtime for Democracy (SaSoC is on Frankenchrist) ;-)

thisbenzingring ,

Bedtime is good but it's the post breakup album haha so does it really count?

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

Fair point :-)

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • random
  • [email protected]
  • tech
  • kbinEarth
  • testing
  • interstellar
  • wanderlust
  • All magazines
    •