Sims ,

Ensh*ttification = Capitalism. Every point, every annoyance, every spy attack, all lock-ins, and so on, is a result of that archaic sponsored belief system..

kureta ,

not Linux but some open-source software with premium features that have menu items with diamond icons or something like that pointing to those features. you cannot hide the menu items and it keeps sending you notifications to subscribe to an annual license.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

you know windows 8?

like that

lengau ,

How about the maintainers blocking a package that's included in the default repository for ideological reasons?

kawa ,
@kawa@reddeet.com avatar

Huh ? Not aware of this one, which distro and package ?

lengau ,

Some distro that uses the Ubuntu repos blocked users from even installing snapd manually without jumping through a bunch of manual hoops. It's one thing to not preinstall it, but that reeked to me of exactly the "we know better than our users" attitude they were accusing Canonical of.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

what happened on this one?

lengau ,

Some distro that uses the Ubuntu repos blocked users from even installing snapd manually without jumping through a bunch of manual hoops. It's one thing to not preinstall it, but that reeked to me of exactly the "we know better than our users" attitude they were accusing Canonical of.

danielfgom ,
@danielfgom@lemmy.world avatar

We have this already. It's called Ubuntu + Gnome

shaytan ,
@shaytan@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Gnome isn't bad, at all. The team has caused controversy and made mistakes, but gnome's experience is great.

Talking about ubuntu, snaps suck, and it is more "bloated" than what you'd expect, but still, ubuntu isn't half bad. Is mint better for what the ubuntu audience wants? Yes. Does ubuntu still work well? Yes

And ubuntu server rocks

borari ,
@borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

your autocorrect misspelled debian server in that last line there.

vynlwombat ,
Viper_NZ ,

I tried Ubuntu again recently for the first time in years.

Between Snaps and having to create an account to get security updates, I quickly gave up on it.

Taleya ,

Redhat already did it

TheAnonymouseJoker ,

Another Snap/systemd hater idiot spotted. Bet you compile every single package with musl on Gentoo on your Libreboot toaster.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

snaps (and the way canonical is pushing them) are awful at best. snaps are the one reason ive been meaning to hop right now, but its not the first time canonical pulls shit like this.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,

Snaps can sandbox system applications, with no competitor capable in sight. So what is this shit Canonical is pulling?

milicent_bystandr ,

a) having apt packages link a script that downloads the snap. That's the first problem I had, back when I used Ubuntu as as snaps were rolling out. It gave me big trouble updating on bad internet connection.

b) making the server fixed and proprietary, restricting the freedom to do things differently and offer different changes to other users, that we're used to in the Linux and FOSS world

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

in addition to what the guy said:

how it doesnt respect standards like XDG, and how painfully slow it is.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,

No, it is not slow in performance. First time startup is just as slow on Flatpak.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

not at all. speaking as someone who replaced snaps for flatpaks because this specific issue was bothering me a lot.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,

I was using Snaps until last year just to know how they are doing. Snaps did not feel much slower. However, I felt like I became mature enough to use Debian, so jumped ship.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

even with all its faults and shitty maintainers, gnome is among the best ux of any de.

TheGrandNagus ,

Gnome isn't enshitification just because you prefer a different DE ffs

danielfgom ,
@danielfgom@lemmy.world avatar

To quote Clem, head of Linux Mint: "At a time where GNOME applications are less and less designed to work anywhere else than in GNOME, a project like XApp is extremely important."

Libaidwata breaks backward compatibility with older gnome versions and amongst other things doesn't allow theming natively, so the Cinnamon team are going to have to fork off and maintain the older code which works so they can continue to have theming and stuff with Gnome apps.

Gnome seem to like doing the opposite of the Linux philosophy which says interoperability should always be a priority so that the code can be shared as freely as possible.

I can't tell whether they are stupid or lazy over at Gnome. It's not enough to strip the DE down to nothing but now even the code that worked with previous, gnome still widely used, is being dumped.

They are a little island unto themselves.

TheGrandNagus ,

That's a whole lot of waffle without saying anything of substance.

"Gnome apps are designed primarily to fit into Gnome 😡😡😡" is not what enshitification means.

danielfgom ,
@danielfgom@lemmy.world avatar

Purposely breaking backwards compatibility knowing full well that other FLOSS DE's rely on it is enshitification of the worst kind.

We all lose in the end.

TheGrandNagus ,

Not 👏 what 👏 enshitification 👏 means 👏

Gnome can theme their own apps however they like. It's their project.

darkpanda ,

Exit codes from processes are damage points that you take against your HP. When your HP runs out, the distro reformats itself to a clean state.

Takios ,
@Takios@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Instead of reformatting it just logs you out and demands buying a Heal Crystal for 350 Linux Diamonds. You can buy Linux Diamonds in packages of 400 for just 9.99 or buy the 800 package to get a 10% discount!

JackGreenEarth ,
@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee avatar

Android?

aluminium ,

MiUi for sure

Scrath , (edited )

Oh definitely.

I still hate my old phone for locking ADB behind a Mi account registration and when I wanted to go into the theme settings some stupid marketplace app opened from which I could quit by hitting the back button to het to the actual android theme settings

aluminium ,

yeah, also the constant wait times when you install APK... it used to be a decent OS but starting with MiUi 11 they started really enshitifiying big time.

Fisch ,
@Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

And now they changed the name to HyperOS (my dad has a phone with it installed and is constantly complaining about it)

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

sounds like a perfect opportunity to use this account to unlock the bootloader and swap out the os for something not enshittified

Scrath ,

I thought about doing that but if I remember correctly they wanted some information during account creation that I was not willing to share (it was probably my phone number).

Doesn't matter anymore. My new phone is a pixel 7 on which I immediately installed GrapheneOS

shortwavesurfer ,

I totally enjoyed this video!

Ensign_Crab ,

Whatever SCO thought they were doing.

KingThrillgore ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

Ubuntu

phx ,

Increasingly so, and following the path that RedHat was taking prior (and probably worse to come given their new ownership)

Fisch ,
@Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

What did RedHat do? Did I miss something?

gnuplusmatt , (edited )

Nothing, someone who never needed access to the RHEL snapshot source is butt hurt that it only exists as part of centOS stream, making it harder for community rebuilds to exist.

It's no big deal for 95% of users, truly a nonissue. That last 5% can buy RHEL for production or use it for free for personal hosting or development.

TheGrandNagus , (edited )

RedHat is one of, if not the, biggest contributors to Linux. They offer RHEL, which you license as a business or use for free for personal use.

RedHat became pissed off about contributing so much to the Linux ecosystem when a number of other corporate distros simply took their product, changed the name, then shoved it out the door with a price tag that undercuts them, taking money while contributing virtually nothing to the wider ecosystem.

And to be clear I don't mean distros based on RHEL, like Pop/Elementary/Mint is to Ubuntu, I mean literally clones. The exact same software with zero differences other than name.

RH then changed their subscription terms so that redistribution of their source code means they can drop you as a RHEL customer. I.e. you wouldn't have access to further to source code.

This is widely believed to be compatible with the GPL licence that Linux uses — GPL only guarantees users need to be able to see source code, not necessarily that it has to be completely open for anybody to see. GPL also doesn't compel the developer to provide updates for everyone, so if the developer thinks you've broken other terms they've set, they are allowed to drop you/not deal with you further. GPL doesn't force a developer to have you as their continued customer.

People argue that RH may well be complying with the GPL legally, but they aren't in spirit.

I'm still not sure where I come down on it tbh. Philosophically I want RH to go with the spirit of the GPL, but I do find it really shitty that a number of other projects just straight up take RH's product, put a different name on it, and skim money away from an organisation that has transformed the Linux desktop and made it usable.

Thing is, I don't even think it's worked. They can still get all the packages by pulling it in a slightly cumbersome way from CentOS.

TMP_NKcYUEoM7kXg4qYe ,

I think what they tried to achieve was to get rid of the "bit to bit" copypasted distributions which they at least made harder to make. So I suppose at least the cost to "steal the RHEL source" is higher.

btw I dislike that Free Software is also free (0.00 €) software. I feel like there should be some kind of chimera license which would first be proprietary with source available and after a certain time after purchase the code would be open source for the buyer. So you could actually sell it unlike Open Source Software which you can sell only once because the first person can just start giving away free copies. Sadly people in the open source realm tend to get pretty defensive when they see "proprietary". Would cool if flathub at least implemented some kind of way to sell software even if Open Source, that would be a nice start.

phx , (edited )

That's actually not what I was referring to.

First of all, RedHat now belongs to IBM, and they've never been shy about squeezing customers for a buck.

Second, having dealt with their support, it's hit or miss to get a somebody helpful or an endless cycle of tickets. Patching and versioning is sometimes a complete mess.This especially sucks as the main reason most organizations go with RH versus others is for patching and support.

There's also a lot of things where there's a RH-specific implementation , which is further distancing fun other Linuxes and often ignores standard ways of configuring things.

RedHat actually benefitted from Fedora, CentOS etc as it allowed the community to develop products in a way that could be tested to be reasonably compatible, and to develop our port back fixes etc. It wasn't just "RedHat made this and others just took it" but in many ways a symbiotic relationship. Yeah some orgs just went with CentOS but often it was those who worked on RH corporately would run CentOS at home in order to have a similar environment.

TheGrandNagus ,

I know they're owned by IBM now. Doesn't change anything about my comment.

And yeah there was a symbiotic relationship. There still is. Fedora is still quite alike RHEL in many ways, as is CentOS, as are the RHEL clones.

None of this goes against my comment.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

honestly canocical was doing some enshittification type stuff even before redhat was acquired by the corporate overlords.

Wilmo ,

I legit thought that was about to be the joke he was going for at first.

ceasarlegsvin ,

Using sudo costs in game currency

caseyweederman ,

Sudo is on a cooldown

MonkderDritte ,

I use rdo.

ceasarlegsvin ,

That's locked behind the battle pass

MonkderDritte ,

😲

Kristof12 ,
@Kristof12@lemmy.ml avatar

Ads on terminal

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

i would have been fine with them if it was only actual announcements like canonical implied it would be. but well as it turns out it wasn't.

HobbitFoot ,

Whatever the Steam Deck would be if Valve went full Linux desktop?

4am ,

GNU/ME

edinbruh ,

Yeah that would be terrible, imagine if you were to run some updates and the package manager went like "Get <name of the distro> Pro! You will get better updates and support"

Corgana ,
@Corgana@startrek.website avatar

I know this is a joke but "Enshittification" requires there to be a monopoly that abuses commercial customers along with users. Linux distros can't really have monopolies since the switching costs are so low.

HumanPerson ,

What about a distro that artificially raises the switching cost?

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

....with AI

Corgana ,
@Corgana@startrek.website avatar
ReversalHatchery ,

Except if you are locked out of system management and you just can't switch. Or only at the price of hardware incompatibilities and consumer apps refusing to work when they see you after practicing your ownership of the device.
See Android.

Caboose12000 ,

The video actually addresses that by mentioning a company coming in nice at first and then doing EEE to kill off ll competition and leave them the only significant player in the space

InternetCitizen2 ,

Real question, how difficult is moving from Red Hat to SUSE?

jjlinux ,

How hard is it for you to install a different distro? That's how hard.

Auzy ,

Not really. On Lemmy, it seems to just refer to anything these days

And that includes theoretical predictions for things that never happened yet

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

it can happen if you have some form vendor lockin, or if you are an oligarch in a cartel. it doesnt need a monopoly strictly speaking.

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