"If you tell a lie big enough and tell it frequently enough, people will eventually come to believe it". What is an example of this happening today?

I would really rather that these were actual examples, and not conspiracy theories. We all have our own unsubstantiated ideas about what shadowy no-gooders are doing, but I’d rather hear about things that are actually happening.

StrawberryPigtails ,

That corporations doing bad things are anything other than individuals doing bad things and hiding it in the anonymity of the “corporation”. Corporations are not people. People are people, and people have a sad tendency to do horrible shit to other people, especially those outside their social circle.

max ,

That meat, dairy, and eggs are essential for a healthy diet.

cro_magnon_gilf ,

They’re semi-essential unless you’re knowledgable enough to get the right proteins without them.

blindsight ,

The eggs part, in particular, is hardly a “big lie”. Eggs are cheap, quick to prepare, delicious, and packed with good nutrients.

The idea of meat at every meal, however, I completely agree.

starlord ,

Religion

Bwaz ,

That the 2020 election was stolen via widespread voting fraud.

bermuda ,

That sodium is the leading reason for blood pressure and heart disease. Evidence has been shaky at best, and at worst it’s a cause among many.

uncertainty ,

I’m not sure where you’re seeing this stated as the leading reason? It sounds like the straw man arguments by those who dismiss concerns with sodium intake. You may be interested in the following discussion sigmanutrition.com/episode375/

bermuda ,

I’m not watching or listening to anything with the word sigma in it, sorry.

uncertainty ,

Sigma Nutrition is not related to the more recently trending term of Sigma Male and its brand of toxic masculinity if that is what you are worried about.

set_secret ,

the Hitler was an atheist seems pretty popular, also that Einstein was religious.

thecookingsenpai ,
@thecookingsenpai@lemmy.ml avatar

No specific examples but that’s the echo chamber style

Melatonin OP ,

☝️

mrpants ,

This fuckin quote is from Joseph Goebbels and was about one of his views on a Jewish conspiracy. I so hate this quote.

thecookingsenpai ,
@thecookingsenpai@lemmy.ml avatar

Wasn’t that fake? Reference link but also wikipedia false nazi quotations

mrpants ,

Hrmm. TIL. Thanks!

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Irony of ironies

thecookingsenpai ,
@thecookingsenpai@lemmy.ml avatar

my exact tought: a lie told thousand times

oriond ,
@oriond@lemmy.ml avatar

The US military is there to protect their country’s “Freedom”

GarbageShoot ,

98% of everything that Americans especially but the people of white countries in general have heard about North Korea is false, and the general ethos of being some kind of psychotic tin-pot dictatorship with no grip on reality is purely an American invention (with the help of the sellouts and agents in the South). There is plenty to criticize the DPRK for – even including stereotypical lines about the less-social elements of its Confucian heritage coloring state ideology all the way back to Kim Il-Sung – but the image that most “westerners” have in their heads is fundamentally a fabrication, despite how confident they are in it.

EatATaco ,

Could you go into detail? I’m interested in hearing your take on this and what it comes from. For reference, I have a good friend (with a stupid amount of money) who loves to travel. Having kind of exhausted all of the typical places, and wanting to do something different, he decides to go to North Korea.

His stories are that it was absolutely as bizarre as he was expecting and how he had zero freedom and everything was perfectly controlled so he could only see what they would allow him to see, including being moved around in vans that didn’t have windows when they were going outside of the city where he was staying.

GarbageShoot ,

I completely missed this comment, sorry.

Yeah, they are definitely restrictive with tourists, but that’s not the same as how citizens live. Your story sounds more extreme than others I have seen (where the general consensus is more generically that the visit was “on rails”), but I’m not about to call your buddy a liar. Citizens, it probably won’t surprise you to know, are not moved around in windowless vans (beyond the case of arrest, where I imagine they might be since that would be pretty normal for most countries).

EatATaco ,

No worries.

From his description, his experience was very “on rails” too, but just including cases where the “rails” very conspicuously were making it so he couldn’t see what was going on around him.

But this doesn’t really answer my question. I’m not saying his experience matches that of a citizen or even that it was accurate. I have no idea I wasn’t there. In fact, it was kind of the exact opposite and that it being “on rails” and only being able to see what they wanted him to see, probably is not at all what citizens live. Kind of the point that they were trying to hide how citizens live.

Which leads me back to my question again. . .you claim we have it all wrong, and my good friend’s experience kind of confirms (as much as he was allowed to) how secretive and weird they are. . .so where is your claim coming from and what is it based on?

GarbageShoot ,

The DPRK is in an unusual and tenuous position, and there is very little that can be usefully gained from speculation that doesn’t involve considering that. At the same time as trying to develop a [dictatorship of the proletariat/highly unusual set of political economic arrangements], they bear constant acts of sabotage from the South and the US that are at times extraordinarily depraved, have endured sanctions for decades, and suffered from regional poverty since long before the WPK took over, all the more so after the US bombed them back into the stone age.

Given this context, and probably also the Otto Warmbier incident, we can begin to understand why they would be vigilant – some would say hypervigilant – towards various security issues, and don’t want some jackass tourist going rogue and causing an international incident. Since they never made a ton of money from tourism – especially discounting Chinese tourism – sacrificing some level of profitability to their tourism industry to keep tourists on a short leash and prevent incidents isn’t so inexplicable.

Complete aside, what nationality is your tourist friend? I assume not American because – due to US passport law – it is very difficult for a US citizen to gain access to the DPRK since the Warmbier incident.

Of course the DPRK is strange, even its most ardent supporters would tell you so, but the fact of the matter is that what westerners think about the DPRK isn’t “The DPRK is weird”, it’s “This is a completely backwards place with absurd laws and propaganda which considers human life worthless,” right? “State propaganda says the Kims don’t shit and Kim Il-Sung invented the hamburger. Kim Jong-Un had his uncle eaten alive by dogs for being rude to him. The rats eat the kids and the kids eat the rats.” etc. My biggest point of emphasis is that every one of those stories, which have agglomerated together to create the hazy cultural consensus that I mentioned, is unambiguously false and you have very little left that you’ve ever actually seen about the DPRK if you subtract all of that.

Here are some things to look at if you like. Obviously I would not tell you to take anything uncritically and I have my own issues with things here and there. I’d be happy to discuss any of them.

theguardian.com/…/why-do-north-korean-defector-te…

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V4Hnl7J9H4

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BO83Ig-E8E

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBqeC8ihsO8

And of course, you can actually look at statements that they put out:

kcna.kp/…/5a9ffe6e4d6704ac1838b14785365295.kcmsf

Or the fact that the Korea-watching industry is just completely shameless about putting out the most harebrained nonsense with very little pushback (including things that don’t make it to the headlines), which really does not lend credibility to the idea of serious-minded criticism of the DPRK having any strong presence in anglophone media and therefore anglophone culture. On this point, because it is a “death by a thousand cuts” situation, it’s really just a question of how many examples you want.

spez ,
@spez@sh.itjust.works avatar

Wow, this thread is tankies sucking each other’s cock. Pretty funny shit.

butt_mountain_69420 ,

That immigration from the third world is good for every country except Israel.

Fleamo ,

That ‘immigration is bad’ would actually be the vastly more common incorrect belief.

butt_mountain_69420 ,

Good thing that isn’t what i said.

DBVegas ,
@DBVegas@hexbear.net avatar

Switching to electric cars will save the planet. Not when they increase tire pollutants at higher rates and still rely on fossil fuels and fracking to charge their batteries.

Also for the US specifically that we can’t afford universal healthcare.

ribboo , (edited )

“Save the planet” is too broad. Electric cars can help with global warming. But may be worse in other areas.

Thing is, global warming is by far and away the largest environmental threat today. So it’s likely very much beneficial to lessen the burden there, while other areas suffer.

But you’re very much right in that it won’t do shit as long as we’re producing electricity through fossil fuel among others. With that said, the same people pushing for electric cars are also pushing for green energy.

towerful ,

ICE rely on 100% carbon fuels. There is no other option.
EVs don’t have to. If the grid is decarbonised, they could run on 100% renewable energy. Even if there are fossil fuels powering the grid, the centralisation of the combustion should make it an easier target to scrub/capture pollution from.
Tire pollution is pretty bad tho.

While EVs aren’t going to save the planet, hopefully the battery tech and infrastructure investments will help pave the way to better solutions.

max ,

A purely fossil fuelled electric car (as in, fossil grid) is already more efficient than an ICE.

7bicycles ,

To get anywhere close to the grid being considered decarbonised (I’m ignoring carbon capture here because that’s not going to happen at any meaningful scale unless we geoengineer shit) all of the materials, all of the manufacturing and all of the building and maintenance would have to be run on renewable energy. Like from the mines of Australia over to all of the plants in china to assembly, for every component.

And to have it make any difference at all, you have to do it within the next 30 or so years. And then there’s still the tyres, also you gotta do the entire shit again for the very climate friendly processing of building roads that withstand cars for give or take a season, extra challenge mode due to the increased weight of EVs. And also then there’s still the tyres.

hopefully the battery tech and infrastructure investments will help pave the way to better solutions.

We’ve already got those, it’s called trains and bicycles, former have been EVs for like a century

towerful ,

While I understand that, you’ve also described the supply chain of building an ICE vehicle, extracting and refining fuel, transporting fuel etc.
Even if the EV suppli chain is currently terrible, that’s because regulations haven’t caught up yet. It was the same with oil extraction, “why pipe it when you can just have a river of crude oil” mentality. And hopefully regulations are faster to be enforced.
Anyway, if the end result of a given supply chain is something that goes on to produce less pollution, then that is progress.

And yes, public transport is always going to be better. Especially if they aren’t ICE.
Even EV mopeds are great. And the amount of electric bicycles I’ve seen going around is encouraging.

I agree EVs aren’t going to save the planet. But they are progress, and you can’t convince me that we should continue using fossil fuels for personal transport.

7bicycles ,

I’m not arguing pro ICE cars over EV cars, I’m arguing against cars, be they EV or ICE

2Password2Remember ,

the vast majority of americans believe the obvious lie that buying things can make you happy

Death to America

Spongebobsquarejuche ,
@Spongebobsquarejuche@hexbear.net avatar

There is no war in Ba Sing Se.

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