scratchandgame , (edited )

OpenBSD = Security

It is actually correctless. OpenBSD = Correctness + Simple + Free (free from copyleft too)

FreeBSD = The main UNIX-like

Citation???

NetBSD

maximum portability??

But up to NetBSD 10 (at the time writing it was not released) YOU DON’T HAVE SSL CERTIFICATES INSTALLED IN THE BASE SYSTEM !

That’s my warning :)

Pantherina ,

I dont get that “no copyleft” of OpenBSD. Like, anything they do will just be used by Apple, Sony etc. and they dont give shit back

scratchandgame ,

OpenBSD try to remove GPL licensed software from base. (with free alternative)

Like, anything they do will just be used by Apple, Sony etc. and they dont give shit back

This is what the OpenBSD team want, and also appreciated by other BSD developers.

Pantherina ,

I have no idea why they would do that to themselves. You develop free software without any protection again abuse?

scratchandgame ,

SEE THEIR POLICY, don’t complain with me

openbsd.org/policy.html

They distribute a Free operating system

The original Apache license was similar to the Berkeley license, but source code published under version 2 of the Apache license is subject to additional restrictions and cannot be included into OpenBSD. In particular, if you use code under the Apache 2 license, some of your rights will terminate if you claim in court that the code violates a patent.

A license can only be considered fully permissive if it allows use by anyone for all the future without giving up any of their rights. If there are conditions that might terminate any rights in the future, or if you have to give up a right that you would otherwise have, even if exercising that right could reasonably be regarded as morally objectionable, the code is not free.

In addition, the clause about the patent license is problematic because a patent license cannot be granted under Copyright law, but only under contract law, which drags the whole license into the domain of contract law. But while Copyright law is somewhat standardized by international agreements, contract law differs wildly among jurisdictions. So what the license means in different jurisdictions may vary and is hard to predict.

The GNU Public License and licenses modeled on it impose the restriction that source code must be distributed or made available for all works that are derivatives of the GNU copyrighted code.

While this may superficially look like a noble strategy, it is a condition that is typically unacceptable for commercial use of software. So in practice, it usually ends up hindering free sharing and reuse of code and ideas rather than encouraging it. As a consequence, no additional software bound by the GPL terms will be considered for inclusion into the OpenBSD base system.

Pantherina ,

Thanks for the info. A very controversial topic.

scratchandgame ,

It is controversial for outsider

bringing it to developers is a way to waste their time

www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#42

Pantherina ,

A project could compromise by entering into NDA agreements with vendors, or including binary objects in the operating system for which no source code exists

Agreed.

I appreciate that they are blobfree but “no copyleft” has nothing to do with that. Actually, I think Copyleft Linux could not include blobs?

scratchandgame ,

I appreciate that they are blobfree but “no copyleft” has nothing to do with that

Blobs that are redistributable is still included. The 0x things are redistributable under BSD 3 clause license, with an additional clause prohibiting reverse engineering

Which is much free than the gpl

Actually, I think Copyleft Linux could not include blobs?

What??

Pantherina ,

Copyleft means FOSS that can only be used as FOSS. Any changes made need to be published etc. Blobs are not even FOSS, so they can only be implemented as Linux is not FOSS.

with an additional clause prohibiting reverse engineering

What does that mean? You can redistribute binary code that is not Open source, and you are also not allowed to find the source code? How is that free?

scratchandgame , (edited )

I think you shouldn’t argue on why bsd use the bsd license because no one would care, and I will stop here

We should focus on learning and programming, just like Vietnamese these day should be good on Marxism-Leninism that’s taught in the university/college to have the right mindset and should’t care about anarchism, liberalism, etc and focus on whatever science to help the country.

What does that mean? You can redistribute binary code that is not Open source, and you are also not allowed to find the source code? How is that free?

You can redistribute binary code that is not Open source under a free license

there isn’t a problem making OpenBSD nonfree in their opinion, the only problem is they cannot fix the binary code if it have bugs and “can’t confirm if the blob contain malware”

Blobs are not even FOSS, so they can only be implemented as Linux is not FOSS.

FOSS???

This is source code.

They can exist side by side with linux (like you install gcc and openssh on your linux). I saw microcode are packaged, not installed by default (about arch linux)

If they are linked against linux they must be gpl

Can you read the gpl or that’s just long and right and everyone must use it to support GNU

using a license that promote giving code back (put restriction on redistribution) for coreutils, gcc, libc, etc… has borned Chimera Linux (which point out the quality problem of GNU (in code!) by using BSD userland and LLVM and musl)

Loucypher ,

And then you have NomadBSD if you need an OS in a usb stick :)

state_electrician ,

“I just threw a dead squirrel in a shoe box and installed NetBSD on it.” is one of the bash.org quotes I still remember.

Vendetta9076 ,
@Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works avatar

And damnit we did it too

possiblylinux127 , (edited )
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

BSD is kind of dead

Additionally the lack of copyleft does nothing for user freedom. You could buy a device and you would have no way of knowing it runs free software.

Vendetta9076 ,
@Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works avatar

This entire comment is incorrect

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Then why are Xi systems and a bunch of other companies moving away from BSD.

Vendetta9076 ,
@Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works avatar

They aren’t? XI aren’t at least. Having two products doesn’t mean they’re abandoning one.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

I though they were thinking about dropping support for TrueNAS core

Vendetta9076 ,
@Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works avatar

Nope

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar
Vendetta9076 ,
@Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works avatar

Well fuck.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news

whoami ,

NetBSD, from their own website:

The NetBSD Project’s goals

A project has no point if it doesn’t have goals. Thankfully, the NetBSD Project has enough goals to keep it busy for quite some time. Generally speaking, the NetBSD Project:


<span style="color:#323232;">provides a well designed, stable, and fast BSD system,
</span><span style="color:#323232;">avoids encumbering licenses,
</span><span style="color:#323232;">provides a portable system, which runs on many hardware platforms,
</span><span style="color:#323232;">interoperates well with other systems,
</span><span style="color:#323232;">conforms to open systems standards as much as is practical.
</span>

In summary: The NetBSD Project provides a freely available and redistributable system that professionals, hobbyists, and researchers can use in whatever manner they wish.

Based on the name of have assumed it’s be used in things like network appliances but in 20 years I’ve never seen a single device use it.

The name comes from being develop over the internet, when that was still a pretty new concept. It’s pretty popular among Japanese ISP’s iirc.

If you’re at all interested in unix, you should try NetBSD. Open has security as a focus…although some of that is overstated imo. FreeBSD is clearly targeting servers, even if it is all purpose.

NetBSD is less popular, but it’s clean, lightweight, portable, has pkgsrc. Think of Net as a cross between Open and Free.

scratchandgame ,

I think OpenBSD, FreeBSD and NetBSD are much cleaner than Linux (evidence: Chimera Linux)

whoami ,

you mean chimera using BSD utils instead of gnu?

scratchandgame ,

yes

bizdelnick ,

There’s no specific point in any of *BSD. They all are general purpose OSes. NetBSD forked from FreeBSD, OpenBSD forked from NetBSD. Conflicts between developers were main reasons for that.

whoami ,

NetBSD didn’t fork from Free iirc. They took 4.4 BSD and started developing it themselves of the net.

Theo de Raadt was kicked out of netbsd, and started OpenBSD.

bizdelnick ,

Yes, you are right. Both FreeBSD and NetBSD are based on earlier BSD systems. Anyway there are no fundamental differences between them.

whoami ,

no fundamental differences between net and freebsd?

bizdelnick ,

No such ones that would make one of them unsuitable for some task that another copes with.

scratchandgame ,

What the hell??

They evolve differently. Saying *BSD is like 4.4BSD is still developed by ucb to provide a single base for all BSD.

Michael W Lucas wrote in Absolute FreeBSD (3rd):

Absolute BSD (No Starch Press, 2002) was my first technology book and was written when the various BSD operating system had more in common than they wanted to admit. The second edition, Absolute FreeBSD (No Starch Press, 2007), came out after the BSDs had diverged, and detailed FreeBSD’s advances in the previous five year

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Pretty much like all Debian forks. They’re all forked from Debian because of conflicts between developers / different ways of seeing things. :P

ryannathans ,

Somewhat confused this is in a linux community when none of these OS are linux based. Are we lacking on BSD communities?

acockworkorange ,

It’s not like the interests are not aligned.

PseudoSpock ,

They aren’t.

cashews_win OP ,

We don’t have BSD communities and even if we did they probably wouldn’t be big enough to get a decent answer.

So I asked here cos there’s a high chance that some Linux users will also know something about *BSD.

PseudoSpock ,

That doesn’t mean we want it here. Missing the community you are looking for? Create it.

Cenzorrll ,

You’d probably get better conversations at selfhosted I know some folks there run *bsd network appliances. NASs, firewalls, etc.

scratchandgame ,

I think no BSD expert will bother this place

makmarian ,
@makmarian@kbin.social avatar

There are some BSD communities on Lemmy/kbin, but they don't have many subscribers yet.
Here are the ones I know of:
@openbsd
@openbsd
@bsd
@netbsd
@bsd
@freebsd
@freebsd
@netbsd
@bsd
@freebsd
@FreeBSD

whoami ,

you’re more likely to find BSD communities on reddit, each projects mailing lists, freebsd forums, and unitedbsd.com (which is a great forum, although not too active).

Ramin_HAL9001 , (edited )

Yes, it is mostly appliances, but an (informal?) stated goal of NetBSD is too run on all computing hardware.

  • FreeBSD = user-friendly free Unix (plus ZFS and jails 😀)
  • OpenBSD = very secure free Unix (no ZFS 🙁 but has the VMM hypervisor 😀)
  • OpenIndiana = user-friendly free Unix that runs old Solaris software (plus ZFS and zones 😀)
  • NetBSD = runs on any computer chip ever built within the past 40 years (some ZFS support, but no zones, jails, or VMs 🙁)

Naturally, that makes NetBSD a good choice for appliances, especially ones that might only have limited memory.

(Here is a quick explainer on the difference between Jails, Zones, Containers, and VMs)

EDIT1: someone pointed out to me that ZFS is not supported on OpenBSD. Sorry about that everyone.

EDIT2: there is a ZFS driver for NetBSD

ducking_donuts ,

There’s no ZFS support in OpenBSD is there?

whoami ,

No, but I think someone made read only support for ZFS available on OpenBSD. Freebsd is obviously the best for ZFS. It works on NetBSD too.

Ramin_HAL9001 ,

Thanks, I had to double check that but you’re right, ZFS isn’t on OpenBSD. What a shame. Anyway I edited my above post.

flying_gel ,

But there is zfs support in netbsd… wiki.netbsd.org/zfs/

Ramin_HAL9001 ,

According to the wiki, ZFS “works well” but doesn’t seem to be as stable as in FreeBSD or OpenIndiana, and is not enabled by default so you have to update your rc.conf file to build the ZFS drivers.

atzanteol ,

From “back in the day” the big claim was that NetBSD would run on anything. Portability seemed to be their major goal.

socphoenix ,

I think the point is network appliances but it seems mainly used by hobbyists from what I’ve seen.

socphoenix ,

If you look at the supported platforms you kind of get an answer here. There’s support for the m68k Macintoshes and other similar ancient devices still.

netbsd platforms

doubletwist ,

The main point was always portability, and the ability to run NetBSD on basically ANYTHING.

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