Ukraine weapons package ‘ready to go’ once aid bill clears Congress ( www.washingtonpost.com )

The Pentagon has a massive infusion of military aid for Ukraine “ready to go,” U.S. officials said, once a long-delayed funding measure, which is expected to pass the House this weekend, clears the Senate next week and President Biden signs it into law.

The Defense Department, which has warned that Ukraine would steadily cede more ground to Russian forces and face staggering casualties without urgent action on Capitol Hill, began assembling the assistance package well before the coming votes in a bid to speed the process, these people said.

One official, who like some others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the Biden administration’s planning, said that once the $95 billion foreign aid bill is finalized, it would take less than a week for some of the weapons to reach the battlefield, depending on where they are stored. The legislation includes about $60 billion for Ukraine, with most of the remainder slated for Israel and U.S. partners in Asia.

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capem ,

Why are we sending them equipment when they’re going to lose?

OttoVonNoob ,

I don’t think they are going to lose. But at the very least it’s good to negotiate from a position of power. IE a banks going to loan money to someone with a job vs a homeless dude…

AnAnonymous , (edited )

To make loans to them if they eventually “win” or they make an agreement with the russians after the war, and to have an US muppet in the area?

khannie ,
@khannie@lemmy.world avatar

Welcome back with the new burner o/

maynarkh ,

So that they don’t lose? Why do you think they are going to lose?

capem ,

Because they are are fighting a better military.

golli ,

And that automatically means that the larger military will win? Looking at Vietnam and Afghanistan …

capem ,

Yeah. Vietnam and afghanistan are identical to the war in Ukraine.

It’s not like the US is on the other side of the world, or anything.

Nope. They’re exactly the same.

Anything to avoid admitting Ukraine is going to lose and you’ve been taken for a ride 🤣

FordBeeblebrox ,

Lol, the tankers with egg carton “reactive armor” and conscripts without shoes? Better than whom?

brain_in_a_box ,

In that case, Ukraine will be fine without our aid, right?

FordBeeblebrox ,

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  • brain_in_a_box ,

    Lol, “Russian questions”

    FordBeeblebrox ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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  • brain_in_a_box ,

    Lol

    Apollo42 ,

    Its June 1940. France has surrendered, the continent has fallen, and what remains of the British army has just evacuated from Dunkirk leaving all of its heavy equipment behind. At this stage of the war the British army is outnumbered at least 12-1 by an enemy that is infitely better equipped than it.

    Should Britain have surrendered to the Nazis because they were losing to “a better army?”.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s already Joever. Russia has ramped up production to like 10 times the artillery shells.

    Ukraine had a chance at the beginning. But we did not give them good weapons. We stalled for two years and now Russian weapons are being produced in mass quantities.

    Apollo42 ,

    I don’t agree with much you say dude, but I sort of admire how passionately you hate Joe Biden.

    PeggyLouBaldwin ,

    and for the right reasons

    maynarkh ,

    Russia has basically shifted to their old doctrine of using an overwhelming volume of basic artillery shells, which allowed them to capture Avdiivka with losses estimated to be 3 Russian casualties to every Ukrainian. They are maintaining this not with having built new manufacturing capacity, they simply are running their existing factories non-stop with three shifts instead of one. Even like this, they can only manufacture enough shells to keep this volume up for 2-3 more months (maybe the Chinese aid they get helps with that?).

    On the other hand, the EU and the US has been building factories for artillery shell manufacturing that will ramp up by the end of this year to March 2025 to the point where they will be making as many 155mm shells as the Russians make 152mm. The Russians will not be able to keep up, for that, they would have had to start building factories months ago, which would be obvious on satellite photos.

    On the other hand, Russia is ironically having a problem with artillery guns, with their fleet having gone from 80% self-propelled to 80% towed, which is not a good thing in the age of good counter-artillery. Even worse, old WWII D-10 guns are popping up all too often, with ranges of up to 10km, and abysmal accuracy. These are not good enough to outrange better drones even, and eat more shells to get the same results, taking away from the shell advantage.

    Point is, right now it’s not even like 1942 against Germany, it’s more like 1916, everything is up in the air. Russia’s path to victory is to keep this up in the long term, and the only way to do that is to keep Chinese and Iranian imports of shells and drones up, have Trump elected to stop the US from tipping back the balance, and/or get enough people elected in the EU to do it there. If Russia can keep up what they’re doing, and keep their current advance up, and replicate Avdiivka all around the front, they might reach Kyiv by summer 2026, Lviv by the end of 2027, maybe.

    This is far from over, unfortunately, and a lot of Ukrainians and Russians will die until it ends either way. Russia has some advantage right now, but not enough to break the stalemate, as evidenced by the last 4 months.

    FlyingSquid Mod ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Russia’s war with Ukraine has done far more to weaken the Russian military than anything during the entire Cold War. Including the Soviet war in Afghanistan.

    Why wouldn’t America send Ukraine equipment?

    capem ,

    That poor cannon fodder :(

    FlyingSquid Mod ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I guess Putin shouldn’t have chosen to invade Ukraine.

    capem ,

    Why?

    FlyingSquid Mod ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Then his military wouldn’t be cannon fodder.

    capem ,

    Looks like Ukrainians are cannon fodder for the West. Lol.

    xor ,

    They’re literally getting invaded by Russia in a defensive war for the very existence of their country. That’s not “for the west”.

    Regardless, whether you look at it as a moral duty to the Ukrainian people, or as a self interested opportunity to protect Europe and weaken Russia, funding Ukraine is an efficient investment.

    capem ,

    They would’ve surrendered by now if not for the belief they could win with western equipment.

    Did you think they were going to take back Crimea? At what point do you acknowledge you may be a victim of propaganda?

    Answer: never. Propaganda is only the tool of the enemy, always. Lol.

    funding Ukraine is an efficient investment.

    That’s not “for the west”.

    Funding Ukraine is an efficient investment for the west…

    Might wanna brush up on your reading comprehension.

    xor ,

    you may be a victim of propaganda

    He says, predicting the outcome of a frozen, attritional war with total certainty

    If the Ukrainians didn’t think they had a chance they could win, they wouldn’t be bothering to fight

    Yes, funding Ukraine is an efficient investment for the west, but that doesn’t mean that the Ukrainians fighting are doing so for the benefit of the west rather than themselves.

    Propaganda is only the tool of the enemy, always

    Well that’s just not true - in fact the vast majority of propaganda is focused on their own sides lol

    FlyingSquid Mod ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m not sure why you think that’s funny.

    Is that the sort of thing that makes you laugh? People dying?

    xor ,

    I know right, those poor conscripted russians getting slaughtered on the frontline for Putin’s imperialism

    capem ,

    What about the poor conscripted Ukrainians getting slaughtered because they’ve been duped into thinking they can win?

    You don’t ever think about those, huh.

    Badeendje ,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    What the others said.

    Also because they need equipment not cash. If the US would give them money, Ukraine would still have to get equipment somewhere.

    Now the US is clearing out old inventory that is at the end of its shelf life (explosives have a shelf life) and the Ukranians use them to blow up Russian military instead of the US paying a company to dismantle the munitions.

    The US charges the Ukranians current book value (low) and reimburses the military from the aid budget. The US military then uses this extra cash to buy new toys.

    Apollo42 ,

    Something a lot of US fascists asked in the first few years of WW2 when it came to arms shipments to Britain!

    BombOmOm ,

    Good, it has been far too long. At least the military is doing their job.

    empireOfLove2 , (edited )
    @empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    The reason the US military became so effective and renown is less about being a good military organization, and more about being the largest, most efficient logistics company in the world. A logistics company that can deliver millions of tons of munitions to very specific parts of the globe in ridiculously short time frames.

    If there’s one organization that can move $60 billion worth of equipment in like a week tops, it’s the fuckin DoD. That is their job.

    FilthyHands ,
    @FilthyHands@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Amatuers discuss tactics. Professionals discuss logistics.

    Milk_Sheikh ,

    The US on the regular flexes their ‘global airlift’ capability by shuffling tanks and armored vehicles around the globe via air freight, moving entire company’s worth of hardware between continents.

    Sensible militaries with actual budgetary concerns use sea freight, accepting the delay.

    FordBeeblebrox ,

    Well yeah we built this fuckin rad giant plane that you can drive a whole tank into. What are we gonna do, not fly tanks around?

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