kaine ,

When someone concern trolls vegans regarding deficiencies, more than likely they do not give a fuck about the person they are talking. And that is fucking annoying tbh.

LemmyKnowsBest ,

What?

LemmyKnowsBest ,

I’ll translate this into more understandable English:

When someone who claims to be concerned about vegans regarding any possible nutrient deficiencies, and trolls them about it, more than likely they do not give a fuck about the vegan. And that is fucking annoying tbh.

Obi ,
@Obi@sopuli.xyz avatar

Verily, when one doth profess concern for the welfare of vegans, yet doth engage in mockery and jest regarding their potential dearth of sustenance, 'tis most probable that such a one harbors no genuine care for the vegan’s well-being. 'Tis indeed vexatious and perturbing, if truth be told.

LemmyKnowsBest , (edited )

Lo! A veritable Shakespeare doth enchant us in the Fediverse!

p5yk0t1km1r4ge ,
@p5yk0t1km1r4ge@lemmy.world avatar

I care for literally nothing about veganism; weirdly though it’s starting to pop up everywhere I look this week.

Sankta ,

You should care. Its important

p5yk0t1km1r4ge ,
@p5yk0t1km1r4ge@lemmy.world avatar

Why’s that?

Sankta ,

First of all the ethics behind your consumption but also impact on social and environmental sectors. Especially dairy/beef industry is incredibly harmful to our climate

p5yk0t1km1r4ge ,
@p5yk0t1km1r4ge@lemmy.world avatar

Eh, there’s no such thing as ethical consumption imo. I’ll stuck with neat and vegetables both.

Sankta ,

True but you you can be as ethical as possible

nednobbins ,

There are many subcultures around food. It’s not like the world is split between vegans and junk food addicts.

The Cheeto and McDonalds eating crowd may have crappy nutrition but they’re an extreme. The other extreme is meal-preppers. They know exactly how much chicken, rice and broccoli they’re eating.

There are huge communities of people who are very health conscious. Some of them focus their consciousness on science, some of them on other methods. Some of those people are vegans. Some aren’t.

bastion ,

But… But… You taste like batteries…

bastion ,

Nice to see a sane take.

fidodo ,

Thing is anyone health conscious already knows that you can have good nutrition with a vegan diet. Anyone generalizing veganism as having bad nutrition without looking at the specifics of what someone is eating has no idea what they’re talking about and probably don’t have good nutrition themselves if they’re that uninformed

MilitantVegan ,

I’ve read that vegans average fewer nutrient deficiencies than omnivores. People should be worrying more about getting enough whole-food fiber than they are about protein.

chatokun ,

I’m not Vegan, but I like trying to find Vegan meals I really enjoy, or close enough. One close enough is a bulgur bowl dish, using meat replacement and shawarma seasoning, tomatoes, cucumbers, sometimes chickpeas, sometimes grilled onions, and then the nonvegan parts: goat cheese and feta. Goat cheese is mixed with a little olive oil, garlic, and lemon juice to make it a sauce. There’s no meat but ther is cheese, and it’s a nice fiberous dish that helps reduce my meat intake anyway.

twig ,

My main problem with strict dietary rhetoric is that it doesn’t acknowledge the benefit of people eating vegan (or whatever) sometimes. Like it’s a good thing to get nutrition from diverse sources and there’s carryover benefit to the planet when doing this.

I’m not a vegan, but I eat a lot of plant-based meals and when I eat meat, because I eat less of it, it’s generally local and ethically-raised. Militant vegans will often turn people from making decisions like this, and I think that’s a shame.

I was a vegan for years. And I was careful about trying to get my nutrients. But I needed to eat so much more and I was lowkey tired all the time. When I started eating some meat again I felt ashamed of myself for not living up to the rhetoric. But it’s just silly to treat this as an all or nothing type thing. A person eating beans and rice one day and a small amount of beef in a stir fry the next is… not the same as a person eating fried chicken every day, and I don’t appreciate when anyone implies it is.

bastion ,

Classic “don’t let prefect be the enemy of good.”

When people reduce their commercial meat intake in favor of veggies, or humanely raised and slaughtered meat, they are having a beneficial effect. Period.

barsoap ,

Yes and no because when vegans get nutrient deficient it hits them hard. Lack of fibre is completely benign compared to deficiencies in essential micronutrients – fibre is not essential. You can have a maize and MSG diet if that also includes about two eggs a week your body is not going to be well off but it’s going to cope instead of collapse.

And lots of prospective vegans are hit by those deficiencies, and then drop out, at least out of strict veganism. Nothing like a gal’s period stopping to scare them off. Which, conversely, means that if vegans want to actually grow their numbers they should stop being all blase about nutrition. It definitely is possible to get enough iron, even as a gal, from a vegan diet but yes you gotta eat your lentils. There’s alternatives but how in the everloving does it happen that people turn vegan and don’t eat enough, of all things, lentils. I probably eat enough lentils and I’m not even vegan.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Reject lentils, embrace broccoli 🥦

Actually btw. Broccoli and spinach have much higher iron levels.

barsoap ,

Most of the iron in spinach is not bioavailable. Veggies generally aren’t good at the iron being bioavailable but spinach is especially bad, and lentils are quite good and contain a ton. Apples have excellent bioavailability but comparatively low iron content OTOH you can just stick a nail into them. Or use an iron pan that also helps. And yes diced apples work quite well in lentil stew the lentils need acid anyway, add spices and aromatics, either noodles or a slice or two of good bread and you have yourself a meal.

DragonTypeWyvern , (edited )

You have it reversed, iirc. The iron in broccoli is one of the best in terms of plant based bioavailability, and has a higher base amount, and the iron in lentils has some of the least amount of bioavailability, around 2%. Spinach’s bioavailability is low too, but still higher than that at 6%.

Of course, in practice, you can just take an iron supplement or cook with cast iron and not worry about this at all.

zarkanian ,
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

Come on, now. Lentils, broccoli, and spinach are all awesome in their own ways.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

We agree on 66% of that statement!

bastion ,

Bam!

Buddahriffic ,

Yeah, that’s why I don’t go vegan or vegetarian. I doubt I’ll get enough of some nutrients that are easy to get from meat. I’ve cut out most of my dependency on the beef industry, though even that has been difficult to get to 0 and probably won’t because I don’t see myself ever being willing to give up cheese. So far, no alternative I’ve tried has come close enough.

But an Indian vegetarian dish, dol (dal?), has become a regular dish in my home. It’s mostly lentils and spinach but it’s really good, even my daughter loves it. Plus it’s really easy to make a giant batch of to freeze leftovers.

31337 ,

I wonder what kind of diet vegans are following that get deficiencies. I’ve been vegan for years (started because I had high cholesterol levels), and the only thing I’ve worried about is B12, which I get from enriched soy products or nutritional yeast. I try to just buy what’s in season locally, then find vegan recipes or recipes that can easily be substituted to make vegan. I don’t even eat much of the trendy “superfoods” like quinoa, kale, lentils, etc. More like collard/sweet potato/beet greens, chickpeas, pinto beans, root veggies, etc. I dunno where I get my iron from; probably greens. I also use veg or olive oil pretty liberally, especially in recipes that traditionally include beef or pork.

barsoap ,

Chickpeas and pinto beans, legumes in general, are a decent source of iron. Lentils just happen to be the best legume, and pretty much best veggie overall.

It’s definitely possible to get all nutrition from an intuitive diet, preconditions are a) having been exposed to enough different foodstuffs, b) not being addicted to junk food and c) a habit of cooking from scratch and follow your gut when planning meals. B12 really is the critical thing for vegans as non-animal sources are indeed very rare. There’s a nutritional co-processor somewhere in us we wouldn’t be here if we didn’t have one. Also pregnant women couldn’t suddenly crave pickles with Nutella without one. The trick is actually using it.

zarkanian ,
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

I’m a vegan. Lentils aren’t a regular part of my diet. I’m willing to bet that they aren’t in a lot of people’s diets. I live in the US, and you kind of have to seek out lentils here. They aren’t a rare and exotic food or anything like that, but which foods can you buy, ready-made, that contain lentils? Soup is about the only one I can think of.

chatokun , (edited )

So, you caveat your statement with ready-made foods, but that’s kinda disingenuous, as you’re vegan. That means you have to seek out your food in general, and it’s more likely that your food may contain lentils, like bean patties that replace beef patties for burgers. Maybe not all of them, but they definitely exist. I imagine a lot of pre-made vegan meals also probably intentionally make up for difficiencies natural to the diet.

I like to cook my own food, so everything I make could be counted as “seeking out”. Split peas, lentils, and dal are common beans I keep, along with northern beans, black beans, kidney beans, pinto beans, and pigeon peas.

When I ate pasta more, I also often bought lentil based pasta for a quick meal, so if you’re making anything it isn’t too hard. Also made lentils and rice often. My bean/pasta drawer(obvious none of the canned stuff):

i.imgur.com/ATSvuGy.jpeg

Accidentally hit post before finishing this.

zarkanian ,
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

Your question was “How is it that people turn vegan and don’t eat enough lentils?” and my answer is “Easily enough, if lentils weren’t part of their diet in the first place”.

chatokun ,

Oh, that wasn’t me who asked you that. I just took maybe too much confusion to your statement about lentils being something you had to seek out, which I probably somewhat misunderstood as saying lentils are hard to get outside of soup or something. I don’t have an argument against veganism nor am I confused on how they get nutrients nor that some dietary changes are necessary. In other words, I probably shouldn’t have made my prior post…

barsoap , (edited )

Soup or stew is about the only traditional way to prepare lentils pretty much everywhere, traditionally eaten with bread. The lentil+wheat/rye combo is to Indo-European cooking what beans+maize is to American cooking, and rice+beans to Asia. Africa is also lentil territory the grain situation there is… complex.

In any case yes it’s going to be soup or stew in whatever viscosity and degree of mushiness you want but you’ll find a metric fuckton of different recipes.

If you want something ready-made there’s lentil crisps which actually are very good but also quite a bit more expensive than the usual potato or maize fare.

Godric ,

Mmmmm cows I raised and deer I shot, how scrumptious and nutritious!

bastion ,

Yep. She the better life they have, the better for you, too.

I don’t eat much meat, but I enjoy it. I also do my own slaughtering and butchering for most of my meat.

Of course, with a cow, that gets to be far more than a one-person job.

Godric ,

100%, quality of life for the animal is quality of meat for you.

Deer processing is a one (or two, with beers) person knife job, but cattle is best handled by the pros. I once had a calf die a a couple months in of bloat, and that fucker was about 4x the amount of work and meat, even with two people. I can’t imagine how long it would take with a full grown bull.

Taleya ,

…how do vegans know what meaty humans taste like?

BigFatNips OP ,

Oral was what I thought the implication was. Lithi-cum ion batteries lol

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Isn’t semen an animal product?

ArmoredThirteen ,

Yeah but humans can give consent about the extraction process and how it is used after

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Can a parrot give permission to each them?

Lemongrab ,

A parrot mimics language but doesn’t speak it.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

What’s the difference?

Lemongrab ,

They don’t understand language. They can’t consent. Like a baby the mimics words and we cheer when they get it right, but parrots never understand the words. Same with gorillas.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Are you saying we shouldn’t eat babies?

Lemongrab ,

No,

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Wait, we shouldn’t eat them or you’re not saying that?

snugglebutt ,
@snugglebutt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

are you saying we shouldn’t milk gorillas

TimeNaan ,

Unless it’s a chinese communist milking farm! /s

wander1236 ,
@wander1236@sh.itjust.works avatar

You could look at veganism as the practice of avoiding products from animals that can’t consent, which doesn’t necessarily take cannibalism off the table.

Taleya ,

Rammstein in the distance

Rinox ,

Well, that would make some very interesting “consenting” cheese.

Love me some queso de mamacita

zarkanian ,
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

Well, when a mommy vegan and a daddy vegan love each other very much…

MBM ,

Raw (2016) is a documentary about this

Dasus ,

Unlike sexuality, vegans aren’t born that way. It’s usually by choice later in life, and a lot of vegans grew up not being vegan.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

Tf they think vegan people taste like rainbows and sunsets?

confusedbytheBasics ,

Having had vegan girlfriends and a wife who was vegan for a bit I can attest it makes a difference. Maybe not rainbows but they tasted much sweeter and more mild than average.

interrobang ,

Yeah wife and i cut way back on meat, body odor in general is less… gamey? Smokey? Something.

I really like it, I’m easily overwhelmed by strong smells and I can usually wear unscented deodorant now. I used to funk right through it immediately.

MonkderDritte ,

Does egg and dairy (vegetarian) make a difference?

interrobang ,

Not op, but I eat very little meat, and when i stay with vegan friends and eat their food it takes me longer to feel dirty. Its wild.

Cutting red meat & fast food made the biggest difference, followed by other meat, then dairy, in body smell.

Now that i think about it, i play sports and get very cuddly with vegans and i can’t remember ever noticing anyone smelling too bad, which is surprising.

I have started trying to eat closer to vegan before we visit, because I definitely notice the difference on myself and my wife.

confusedbytheBasics ,

I can’t say for sure. I’ve never gone down on a vegetarian.

Best guess from years of experience: Eggs are similar to meat in their effect. Dairy heavy diets lead to a specific smell all its own, like baby poop, but I don’t think it changes the skin or secretion taste much.

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

generally, having a shit diet will make you not smell (and i guess certain… parts… taste) great.

whenever i eat mcdonalds i stink of some specific compound in their food for several days afterward, even if i shower thuroughly

vaultdweller013 ,
@vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works avatar

Meanwhile I can eat expired MREs and drnk nothing but Mt dew for a week and at worst I shit a brick and feel my teeth. Sounds like ya have a skill issue.

PrincessTardigrade ,

I have noticed the same thing too… I think it’s in the buns. At least I don’t notice it with their fries or nuggets

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

maybe there are several parts of the food that curse you with a smell, because the specific one i’m thinking of smells like the mctasty sauce tastes, which makes the whole thing even more disturbing

PrincessTardigrade ,

Hmm I haven’t ever tried the Mctasty sauce, but yeah it’s a very distinct McDonald’s smell, kinda like how your car smells for a couple days after having the food in there

Sizzler ,

Vegans have more fruits and vegetables inside them so have a higher level of fermentation apparently. Everyone does to a certain extent, but I’ve found that occasionally it can lead to more gas (eat more grains)

bastion ,

So I can legit just tell my vegan friends that they’re drunk when they say weird shit.

…now, for the rest of my friends…

humorlessrepost ,

Fuck batteries, with keto I taste like fingernail polish remover!

GluWu ,

I only eat polar bear liver in order to make my flesh and fluids outright toxic.

humorlessrepost ,

You just have more Vitamin Alpha than those cucks can handle.

EmptySlime , (edited )

Fun fact: My wife ended up with pretty severe malabsorption after her bariatric surgery. Her vitamin A levels went so low that she had almost entirely lost her night vision. For like 6 years now she’s been taking upwards of 125,000IU per day and only just recently her vitamin A levels have gotten just barely into the normal range.

So what I’m saying is my wife could actually eat an appreciable amount of polar bear liver and be fine.

bastion ,

Fun fact!

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I’ve noticed this

Similar with the people who don’t give a fuck about women’s sports except for an excuse to marginalize trans people

zarkanian ,
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yeah, as soon as trans rights comes into it, they have o p i n i o n s

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

They’ve been conditioned to respond to certain key phrases with certain responses.

So the trigger goes trans women -> care -> women’s sports but you don’t get women’s sports -> care.

Or veganism -> care -> nutrition but not nutrition -> care.

Our brains are weird things, they have to develop links between ideas in both directions or else they stay one-way. It takes real work and discipline to develop critical thinking practices, and even then you have to keep working at it to minimise this kind of cognitive dissonance, and you’ll never get rid of it entirely.

Of course it helps if you’re not miseducated by authoritarian schooling practices and conservative media.

Rinox ,

Or how people care soooo much about babies lives until they leave the uterus . After that, they can go die for all they care.

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